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CNN Live Today

Flight Rerouted to Boston After Female Passenger Creates Disturbance

Aired August 16, 2006 - 10:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan.
Welcome to our second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY, as we continue this developing story out of Boston, Massachusetts.

You are looking at the plane, United Airlines Flight 923. It was making its way en route from London to Washington, D.C., when a female passenger created some type of disturbance. And we're getting more information, at least according to The Associated Press, about this disturbance that took place.

According to the AP, this female passenger that caused the disturbance had Vaseline, a screwdriver, matches and a note referencing al Qaeda. That's according to a spokesman for Boston's Logan International Airport.

This plane had 181 other passengers and 12 crewmembers on board. The pilot made a decision to land in Boston. At the point that he requested that, two fighter jets came up and escorted this commercial flight into Boston's Logan International.

Now, if you're concerned in general about flights out of Boston, apparently they are still going at a normal pace, even though all the passengers and crewmembers on board this flight have been forced to come off. This plane is going to go through a thorough security check before anyone is allowed to go on to Washington, D.C.

Our Carol Lin helping with our coverage here and has more information -- Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Daryn. In addition to this Associated Press report about her having a screwdriver, matches, and some kind of a note referring to al Qaeda, that apparently she was spotted, according to the AP, engaging in some kind of suspicious activity.

Now, while we watch the screen unfolding at Logan International airport -- it looks like a luggage carrier there underneath the wing of the plane -- I've got Rafi Ron on the telephone with me right now. He is the former security consultant to Logan International Airport.

Rafi...

RAFI RON, FMR. SECURITY CONSULTANT, LOGAN AIRPORT: Yes, hi. Good morning. LIN: Fill us out a little bit better about why -- this plane was outbound from Heathrow Airport in the U.K., heading for Dulles in Washington, D.C. The diversion to Logan International Airport, what does Logan offer that Dulles might not have been able to handle?

Well, first of all, it offers a shorter flight. So once a risk has been identified aboard the flying aircraft, the best thing that the captain can do is land as soon as possible, because they -- it's always easier to handle problems on the ground than it is at 30,000 feet.

LIN: So, tell me, what is unfolding now with this female passenger? I mean, we see, you know, a large vehicle presence on the tarmac here. The passengers have been off-loaded. The crew off- loaded.

Where would they be questioning this woman and what's going to unfold in that room?

RON: Well, they will be questioning her at the nearest possible location. Probably an initial questioning would be done on the spot, even before she -- she is taken into the terminal. But I'm sure that she will be moved into the terminal, into a location where it will be easier to -- to talk to her in a way that would allow us to learn more about the -- who she is and what she intended to do.

LIN: Rafi...

RON: But from -- yes?

LIN: ... there's a report out there that she was tied up on this flight. Is that standard operating procedure? Why would they tie her up?

RON: Well, if a passenger behaves violently on board, whether this is a result of simple terroristic (ph) behavior, or a -- anything else, tying her up is certainly a measure that is a standard procedure to prevent damage and maintain the safety of passengers on board during the flight.

LIN: But would she be -- would she have to be behaving violently, thrashing about or threatening -- making threats in order to warrant her tying -- being tied up, or would they tie her up or handcuff her as a matter of standard procedure?

RON: Well, I guess that once the violent behavior is exhibited, the procedure is -- is to tie the person up to prevent any further violence.

LIN: OK. So there is an indication, then, that she was - if, in fact, she was tied up by officers, that she was being physically violent?

RON: I guess so. Although, you know, with the present atmosphere after the London events and some other past events, I guess that the level of sensitivity is much higher. And people are willing to -- they take the more preventive-type decisions...

LIN: Sure.

RON: ... in order to preempt any preempt any attempt to harm people.

LIN: Sure -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, I want to ask Mr. Ron a couple of questions.

First of all, I don't know if you can see what we're showing on CNN right now of the plane and what they're doing, but what would be standard procedure given this incident? How thoroughly does this plane need to get checked? How long would these passengers be detained, do you think, in Boston, before getting to go home to Washington, D.C.?

RON: I think if, as it seems from the very little information that I have at this point in time, that this might not be a terrorist- related event, I guess that the conclusion could be reached fairly quickly that the passengers in flight would be allowed to carry on after executing all the procedures that are relevant, including a thorough search of the aircraft before people are allowed to go back on it. But, (INAUDIBLE) I think that, again, as far as known terrorist events are concerned, this can be cleared up very quickly.

KAGAN: I don't know if you know Phil Orlandella. He's a spokesman for Boston's Logan International Airport. He tells The Associated Press that this female passenger had Vaseline, a screwdriver, matches, and a note referencing al Qaeda.

Now, given the level of security coming out of the U.K., I find that very alarming.

RON: Well, you know, those definitions are very wide definitions. A screwdriver could be the kind of thing that you use to fix your glasses. And a note by al Qaeda could be the -- a newspaper...

KAGAN: Right.

RON: ... with al Qaeda article.

KAGAN: Yes, I could see that, they're not checking to see every written thing. But matches? Vaseline? Wouldn't Vaseline count as a gel or the type of substance they would have been checking for and take it away?

RON: Well, yes, I think that's with -- with the present day procedure of not allowing liquids and paste (ph) on board, we could expect that Vaseline would not be allowed in her belongings. But, yet, this is something that we all have to take cautiously before we really realize what this was all about. Because, once again, it all -- these definitions that we have at the moment are very, very wide, and they don't necessarily represent things that should create any concern for us at this point in time. If we will learn later on that the Vaseline was actually a full paste (ph), something with substantial volume -- and the matches, by the way, have not been forbidden on board flights. Whether -- I don't know. At this point in time I think it's a little bit too early to draw conclusions.

KAGAN: All right. Rafi Ron, a former security consultant to Boston's Logan International Airport.

Thank you for giving us perspective about what we have been watching unfold there live on television.

Part of the story has been the two fighter jets that were called upon to escort this plane into Boston International. And our Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon to tell us more about that -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, the U.S. Northern Command, headquartered in Colorado Springs, is now confirming two armed F-15s were scrambled because of this incident. What they tell us is, that at 9:18 Eastern Time this morning, a domestic event network call was initiated, and the planes were scrambled within a very short period of time.

Let's explain to everybody what a domestic event network call is.

Ever since 9/11, the civilian aviation authorities, the FAA and the U.S. military, have 24/7 communications between them. And when there is an incident reported by the FAA, by civilian authorities, they get in contact on one of these phone calls with the military very quickly. That's what happened here, 9:18 this morning, that call was initiated then. And very quickly thereafter, two armed F-15s were scrambled out of Otis Air Force Base, we are told, in Massachusetts.

Now, they escorted this United Airlines flight to the point of that civilian plane entering the flight landing pattern where it was going to land. They did not escort it to the ground, but they escorted it until it got into the flight landing pattern. And then the situation, we are told, was taken over by civilian aviation authorities.

What a military spokesman reminds us is that fighter jets since 9/11 actually have scrambled not infrequently. Usually there's, on average, he says, perhaps an incident a week.

KAGAN: Really?

STARR: But usually, Daryn -- let's explain. That is when maybe a small airplane, a small little jet might stray into restricted airspace.

What this spokesman went on to tell us is, this situation of a passenger disturbance being such that it requires the military scrambling jets, he said, well, that's a little bit different. That's not the type of incident that they usually scramble for. This is something that definitely got everyone's attention. KAGAN: I bet it did. And if you could just talk about how much has changed since 9/11, because haven't -- when they've gone back and looked at what was possible and how everything actually unfolded on 9/11, that fighter jets weren't in the right place to be able to scramble like this.

STARR: Well, you know, it's a tough problem for the military. You can't have jets, you know, on such a short alert everywhere, every place, all the time.

Since 9/11, however, there certainly is the case that the military keeps what they call the capability, if you will, fighter jets ready to scramble in as many places as they possibly can. They don't really talk about it, but it's a well-known fact that there is a very constant capability, for example, to scramble fighters over New York, over Washington.

When the president is traveling somewhere, it is a well-known fact, no breach of security here, that there are fighter jets always on standby. If there's a so-called security event, like the Super Bowl or the Olympics, something that gets everyone's attention, there certainly are fighter jets around on standby ready to roll.

And still, fighter jets do patrol on a regular basis. But this morning, what is clear is there was not a combat air patrol already in the air. That's to be expected. There was no particular reason anyone...

KAGAN: Barbara, I'm just going -- Barbara, I'm just going to jump in here because the White House briefing is beginning and here's Tony Snow.

Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: ... further developments as people continue to assess the situation.

The president today granted pardons to 17 individuals, none of whom are still serving time. But these are largely for people who served their time.

KAGAN: All right. I guess just for a couple minutes there Tony Snow was talking about the incident in Boston, but they're probably watching CNN. And so we'll continue our coverage here.

We have confirmed ourselves, CNN, that the passenger, the woman passenger who has been detained for questioning had with her a screwdriver, Vaseline, and two notes, one in English mentioning al Qaeda, and one in Arabic. And that content is unclear at the time.

That's from our homeland security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve. She has confirmed that.

All very disturbing given the level of security as it's come out of Heathrow this last week.

Dan Rivers standing by there to talk a little bit more about what the level of security is supposed to be and just how restrictive it should be for what passengers are allowed to bring on board there, especially for commercial flights taking off from the U.K. and heading into the U.S. -- Dan.

DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the restrictions have been relaxed somewhat since the threat level was reduced from critical to severe a couple of days ago. So the authorities are now saying you can take one piece of hand baggage on to planes. There are size restrictions. It's about the size of a laptop case.

You are not allowed to take pretty much anything else, apart from your passport and boarding pass. You are not specifically allowed to take any liquids on board a plane, apart from baby foods or baby milk and prescription medicines. But those have to be tested if passengers are asked.

As for the situation with queues at Heathrow, and so on, they are saying that tomorrow they expect there to be 18 cancellations from Heathrow. Most of them short haul and domestic flights. And by Friday they are saying they expect there to be no cancellations and the situation generally to have gotten back to normal.

KAGAN: Dan, how would this fit in? As we said, CNN has confirmed that the woman in question had with her on board a screwdriver and Vaseline and two notes. Now, of course they wouldn't check for notes and what kind of written materials you have, but a screwdriver and Vaseline? That should not have passed security.

RIVERS: It's pretty perplexing, yes. I mean, how she got that on board is obviously going to be subject of a fairly thorough inquiry, I would expect.

There was also another alert this morning, when a 12-year-old boy managed to get on to a plane without a passport or a boarding pass. And, OK, he went through security, but he didn't have any of the right travel documents. And they only realized when he got on the plane and there wasn't a seat for him, and went up to him and said, you know, "Are you sure you're supposed to be here?" And then they, you know, realized that there had been a security breach.

So they will be looking into that and this incident. So, you know, a sign that not all is well. That was at Gatwick, and obviously at Heathrow, as well, the two main airports here in London, that there are some breaches.

And a lot of people are saying that's just because of the chaos down there. There are thousands of people still queuing, you know. They are completely overwhelmed with the backlog. And as a result, it seems like people are managing to slip through.

KAGAN: Yes, I can imagine. This all, of course, on a day when there's news about the suspects, the many suspects in the airline terror plot investigation. They should be in court at this hour. RIVERS: They're in court -- well, they are appearing in court via video link. They're not physically in court, around the corner in Westminster, in central London.

There are 23 of them appearing via video links. It's going to take a long time to get through them all.

We are not expecting any results from that for a few hours now, but we expect that the police will be using the powers that they have to keep these guys behind bars. They can hold them for up to 28 days.

They must ask the judge for permission to extend each time. And this is the first example of using this new power to hold them for 28 days. So, they go before the judge, they present the evidence to the judge and say this is why we think we should be able to keep these people in for a longer period of detention.

The whole thing is not reportable. The press are not allowed in. The whole thing is a closed proceeding for security reasons, primarily. The first time that we will get to go into court to see these people is when they're actually -- and if they are actually charged, which we understand is going to be sometime off.

KAGAN: Dan Rivers, live from London.

Dan, thank you for that.

We're watching a very interesting picture here. This is a live picture courtesy of our affiliate WHDH in Boston. All the luggage, it would appear, from this flight, United Flight 923, has been off-loaded from the plane, spread out one by one, and you can see police dogs are going through it one by one.

This, all after a woman on board this flight that was going from London to Washington, D.C., had an emotional disturbance, was -- caused some amount of alarm. And she now is being questioned by the FBI, local law enforcement, and TSA as well.

The other 180-plus passengers and the 12 crewmembers also off the plane. They will be there for some time while all this luggage and all the plane has been inspected before they are allowed to go on to their final destination of Washington, D.C.

This incident has caught the attention of the White House. Just a few minutes ago, White House spokesperson Tony Snow had this to say...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: United Airlines Flight 923 was diverted on its way back to Washington Dulles from London's Heathrow. It landed in Boston. Apparently, there was a determination made by senior cabin crew and pilots about an unruly passenger, but the flight landed without incident.

The Department of Homeland Security will have further developments as people continue to assess the situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Just a little bit of information there.

We're going to continue watching these live pictures as law enforcement officials go over each piece of luggage there right on the tarmac at Boston's Logan International Airport.

Our Jeanne Meserve, our homeland security correspondent, on the phone with the latest that she's been able to learn about this -- Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Right. We've had conversations with a U.S. government official who tells us this was a woman who became disruptive, and she was carrying a number of items of concern: a screwdriver, some Vaseline, some matches, two notes, one in English that mentioned al Qaeda, another in Arabic. And some of these items are clearly prohibited. Vaseline, for instance.

Screwdriver -- screwdrivers of certain lengths are prohibited from aircraft, but not very short ones. Matches, some types of matches are prohibited, but not others.

Clearly, the notes would have been of concern had anybody seen them. She had this wide array of possibly prohibited and definitely prohibited items. It certainly makes one wonder what she was up to. I would guess perhaps this was someone who was testing the system in some way, but we don't have that from any official sources at this point in time.

KAGAN: Yes, when you look at what she -- that you have been able to confirm that she had on board, quite disturbing, Jeanne, given the level of security that is supposed to be coming out of those U.K. airports this week.

MESERVE: Certainly. As you know, recently the threat level was lowered from red, the highest level, down to orange from those flights from the U.K. But security is still supposed to be extraordinarily tight on those flights. Still taking a very close look, they say, at what people are carrying on. It would appear to be that some things made it past the screeners this time around.

KAGAN: Might be going -- stepping a bit outside your level of expertise, so help me here, but there would be air marshals on board all transatlantic flights, wouldn't there?

MESERVE: I can't definitively confirm whether there were air marshals or not on this flight. I can tell you that the air marshals did surge their capacity to be on flights from the United Kingdom to the United States after the threat level was elevated. It certainly would not be a surprise if there were air marshals on this flight. In fact, quite the contrary. It probably would be a surprise if there were not.

KAGAN: I would go along with that. Jeanne Meserve on the phone, our homeland security correspondent.

Thank you.

We are watching these live pictures. You see this luggage inspection? This is happening right on the runway, or one of the runways at Boston Logan International Airport.

This, according to our Miles O'Brien, would be one of the longest runways where it was allowed to land. And the plane stopped right there. There the luggage off-loaded. However, enough runways and other runways are still in operation at Boston Logan International to allow that airport to continue to operate normally.

Our story and our coverage of this as it develops out of Boston, London, and Washington, D.C., will continue after this break.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Getting back to our continuing coverage of what's happening at Boston's Logan International Airport. You can see those luggage carriers. All the luggage from United Flight 923 being taken off that plane given the incidence that happened over the Atlantic earlier today.

The flight, 923, United, heading from London to Washington, D.C., when a female passenger caused a disturbance. Our Jeanne Meserve has since confirmed that that woman was found on board to have a screwdriver, Vaseline, and two notes referring to al Qaeda, one in English and one in Arabic.

Now you can see right there on the runway at Logan they are taking the luggage off and they're separating it. And you will see police dogs go over it. They are checking each piece of luggage.

All these passengers, 182, have been taken off the plane. The woman who caused the disturbance is being questioned by the FBI. And it will be some time, it appears, before the other 181 make it from Boston back to Washington, D.C.

Our Carol Lin contributing to our coverage, and she has more -- Carol.

LIN: Daryn, I have John Magaw. He -- on the telephone with me right now. He's a former TSA under secretary.

Mr. Magaw, can you hear me?

JOHN MAGAW, FMR. UNDER SECRETARY, TSA: Good morning, Carol. Yes, I can hear you.

LIN: Good morning.

If you can see our pictures, our air, as Daryn was describing, you can see luggage handlers taking pieces of luggage, laying them out on the tarmac.

What specifically are they going to be looking for?

MAGAW: Well, they're going to be looking for anything that might be -- be dangerous. Right now, they are looking mostly for explosives or any incendiary devices. The dogs will pick that up very quickly with their -- with their smell. And so that's what they are looking for.

They to this point haven't searched any of the luggage. They certainly will hers. But they are just trying to eliminate any danger before it's moved any place. That's why the aircraft was put in a remote location, and then they start this process of unloading the passengers, and then back-checking everything to make sure there is a clearance so that they don't have a distracter one place and then some severe thing happen in another.

LIN: Mr. Magaw, our -- one of our homeland security correspondents, Jeanne Meserve, confirmed with a U.S. government official that this passenger had a screwdriver, Vaseline, as well as a couple of notes, one in English mentioning al Qaeda.

Are you surprised, alarmed that those kinds of items were not detected or confiscated at Heathrow airport?

MAGAW: Well, you would have to be concerned that they -- that they weren't discovered, because you are talking about really restricted screenings nowadays. So, yes, you would be -- you would be concerned.

And Secretary Chertoff and Assistant Secretary Hawley from TSA will be very concerned about that. And -- but I guess what you are doing here is you're reporting it as you see it, and I think that's a good thing to do, because the worst thing we can do in security or in your business is jump to conclusions.

It's usually never as good or as bad as first reported. So we have to see what happened here.

I mean, I suppose there's always a chance that a mechanic or a repair person or somebody cleaning the aircraft or something like that could have left a screwdriver on board. It isn't -- it isn't -- probably -- that isn't probably the case. But we can't rule it out. So let's just see how it develops.

LIN: Sure.

MAGAW: But certainly -- and, you know, we have been talking a lot about copycats. You have somebody who may have some slight mental problems or anxiety problems, and as a result carries that as self- defense, or is a copycat, just getting attention because now there is this heightened alert. So you just really don't know what you have here.

LIN: Right. Last question here, Mr. Magaw. Obviously, you mentioned that homeland security here in the United States going to be very concerned if, in fact, she was able to get these items on board a U.S.-bound flight.

How is the TSA or Homeland Security likely to respond?

MAGAW: Well, they're going to be very upset to begin with that it happened on a flight where they didn't have a marshal.

LIN: And you know this to be true?

MAGAW: Well, they would have responded. You would not have had an incident like this probably without a marshal responding, at least one of the team of marshals.

So my guess is, my assumption is that -- and from all of my experience in helping the marshal program get re-instituted and going, you would have had some response or backup. The crew would have known on there, so would the hostesses and the airline attendants. And you would have had at least one of them respond, no question in my mind about that.

LIN: All right. So how is Homeland Security or the TSA going to respond? Is there going to be a confrontation with Heathrow?

MAGAW: Well, we'll have to see.

LIN: Is there going to be more air marshals on international flights?

(CROSSTALK)

MAGAW: I guess you'll have to ask them that. But they are trying to put as many -- cover as many of those flights as they possibly can with personnel that they've had. I know firsthand that they've had hundreds of marshals over there in Europe and flying this way on these flights. And I will be -- I will be very, very surprised if we find that there were marshals on that plane and didn't respond.

LIN: All right.

John Magaw, thank you very much for sharing your expertise.

John Magaw, former TSA under secretary, Daryn, who has given us some insight on what perhaps should have happened on that flight and how the United States government may likely respond to this.

KAGAN: Right. And he also mentioned that we still need to know a lot more about what caused this woman to become upset in the first place, Carol.

The AP is saying that they talked to Transportation Security Administration for Massachusetts, George Nacara (ph), and he says that the passenger on board became claustrophobic and became very upset and got into some kind of confrontation with the flight crew when this all happened.

I would like to go ahead and welcome our viewers who are watching this story unfold with us all around the world, those that are watching on CNN International.

Welcoming in right now Mike Brooks.

A lot of experience you have, Mike, in airport and airline security.

What do you make of what you have been watching unfold this morning?

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Carol -- I mean, Daryn, I tell you, I -- you know, these things happen on a regular basis. I was -- after I retired from the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force, I was with Delta Airlines as a manager in their corporate security. And actually, we were the -- and Delta was the first airline to have a program in place to deal specifically with disruptive passengers.

And, you know, these happen on a regular basis. But we are hearing more about them now, especially since -- since the incident in London. But, you know, these happen every day.

The flight attendants and the pilots are trained to deal with situations like this. And, you know -- but, in this particular case, my question is, how did this person have a carry-on bag on board the plane that originated in Heathrow. There aren't supposed to be any carry-on bags there.

KAGAN: Well, now you are -- now you are allowed to bring something the size of a laptop computer.

BROOKS: Right. But, you know, you are still not allowed to bring bottled water. And in this -- in this woman's carry-on there was a bottle of water, there was Vaseline, matches, and a screwdriver.

You know, how did all those get through security? That is going to be the question to...

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: Right. Let me just jump in to say, so far -- so far, what CNN has confirmed is the screwdriver, Vaseline, and two notes referring to al Qaeda. The bottle of water and matches I did see in some other reports, but CNN has not confirmed that part.

BROOKS: Right. I'm hearing those from -- from law enforcement sources close to the investigation.

KAGAN: OK.

BROOKS: So...

KAGAN: OK. Let me just jump in here a second, Mike, because we are at the half-hour and we do have people joining us all around the world. So don't go anywhere.

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