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Ramsey Case Arrest; Who Is John Karr?; Judge Nixes Wiretaps; British Plane Diverted In Italy

Aired August 18, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We have a lot to get to in the next couple hours, including the arrest in the JonBenet Ramsey case. Let's start with what we know right now.
Officials in Thailand say that suspect John Karr could be returned to the U.S. at any time. It comes as questions mount over his credibility. Some legal experts cite inconsistencies between his reported claim and the evidence in the case. Meanwhile, the brother of the 41-year-old schoolteacher says that he will clear him. Later today he vows to expose the murder case as just ridiculous.

For the latest on the case, let's go to CNN's Ed Lavandera in Boulder, Colorado.

Ed, good morning.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well, we're still trying to make sense of everything that has happened in the last 24 hours. And it's a, you know, a slow, evolving process. And one of the things that really came out yesterday morning was these exchanges of e-mails between a journalism professor at the University of Colorado, who had been working on documentaries about the JonBenet Ramsey mystery, and John Mark Karr, the suspect in this case.

We understand that those e-mails had been going on for about two years. And then at some point there were some things that were said by John Mark Karr to Michael Tracey, this journalism professor, and that because of the tone of those e-mails, he eventually turned them over to Boulder authorities. That's what they used to track him down.

Wanted to read you an excerpt from one of those e-mails that was obtained by the "Rocky Mountain News" newspaper here in Denver. They obtain as few of those e-mails. Not all of them. And in one of them it reads "I was the subject of at least a four-state federal investigation." This is Karr writing to the journalism professor. "For child murder and child molestation. These people were not finished with me when I left the U.S. I cannot return. Since you have never been through something like this in your own life, you cannot know the paranoia it causes. You mentioned you have access to my photograph after talking to you for at least two years. I have reason to be concerned. Consider, if you will, post-traumatic stress."

Again this kind of adding to the confusing picture around John Mark Karr and the words that he said yesterday in Thailand. And we do understand that the journalism professor did pass along his e-mail address and the substance of these e-mails to the authorities. And perhaps it was that e-mail address that helped them track John Mark Karr down in Thailand.

So the journalism professor has not commented publicly to CNN about the tone of the e-mails. He says that there are some things that were not revealed in these "Rocky Mountain News" e-mails, but that there were some other things that were said that really spooked him and caused him to turn those e-mails over. So, again, a very confusing situation still around John Mark Karr as people try to figure out just whether or not the story that he said yesterday in Thailand is true or not.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, whether or not he's guilty of this crime. The creep factor very, very high.

What happens to him? He's in Thailand. But how does he get extradited here? Who's in custody? Who has control over him right now?

LAVANDERA: Well, and that's what we're trying to figure out. We're told that he could be returned here to Boulder in the next couple of days. We're having a hard time getting an exact time frame from the D.A.'s office. As many people heard yesterday in this press conference, the prosecutors not answering any of the questions on the details of this case. Only confirming really that he has been arrested. The way we understand it, he is under arrest for the suspicion of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey but no charges have been filed.

KAGAN: All right, Ed Lavandera in Boulder, Colorado. Thank you for that.

Well, many around the world are wondering who is this guy? Who is John Mark Karr. Our David Mattingly take as look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN MARK KARR: I love JonBenet and she died accidentally.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Before causing a sensation in the grasp of Thai authorities, John Mark Karr was a father, a husband, and a teacher with roots almost a world away in northwest Alabama.

BRAVELL JACKSON, SUPERINTENDENT, MARION COUNTY SCHOOLS: John was a likable student, an out going, intelligent -- you couldn't help but like John. He had something going all the time.

MATTINGLY: Marion County School Superintendent Bravell Jackson remembers a boy raised by his grandparents in the small town of Hamilton, who graduated and attended college. In 1984, when Karr was 19, according to the Associated Press, he married a 13-year-old local girl. The marriage was annulled the following year after the bride said she feared for her life and safety.

In 1989, Karr married a second time. This time to a 16-year-old in Georgia. And in 1996, the year JonBenet was murdered, Karr came home as a substitute teacher in elementary school. But almost immediately there were problems.

JACKSON: Complaints from parents that rumors that were going on in the community and I could not find any legal ramifications as far as any arrest had been made at that time of local authorities. But we felt like it was in our best interest that he not be allowed to substitute in our schools.

MATTINGLY: Karr was let go after just three months. Two years later, he lost another substituting job at another nearby school system after more undisclosed complaints.

In divorce papers filed in 2001, his second wife, Laura, said her now ex-husband had been told that he was "too affectionate with the children."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you were in the basement?

KARR: Yes.

MATTINGLY: But in spite of what he says, Karr's ex-wife Laura told San Francisco television station KGO her ex-husband couldn't have killed JonBenet Ramsey because he was with her the entire Christmas season of 1996. According to school officials, Karr was substituting in Franklin County, Alabama, at the time, working up to December 18th. A week before JonBenet was killed and her Colorado home. And he returned to work when classes started in January.

But Laura Karr also said John Mark Karr was fascinated with the JonBenet murder, researching it extensively, according to KGO. He was also reportedly interested in the murder of 12-year-old Polly Klaas in Petaluma, California. Karr moved his family there in 2000. He lost another teaching job in 2001 after being charged with possessing child pornography. He pleaded not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long had you known JonBenet?

KARR: No comment on that.

MATTINGLY: By the time John Mark Karr was making his stunning public statements, authorities say he had traveled extensively, on the run from the California charges, for five years. A resume posted to an online service for teachers paints Karr as a globe-trotting educator. It cannot be fully verified, but it claims Karr recently taught young children in Honduras, Costa Rica, Germany, the Netherlands and South Korea, before starting a new job this week teaching second grade in Bangkok.

And there are still a lot of missing pieces to this puzzle. Authorities say that John Mark Karr is from Georgia, but they will also say that they know almost nothing about him.

David Mattingly, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: You can catch more of David's reporting on "Anderson Cooper 360." Watch "AC 360" weeknights at 10:00 Eastern only here on CNN.

Let's go live now to Bangkok, Thailand. That is where Karr is currently being held. Our Atika Shubert is standing by.

Atika.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we seem to continue to see that pattern of John Karr applying to schools here in Thailand, trying to get jobs working with elementary school children. He would work for, perhaps, two weeks and then school officials, in at least two schools told us that they let him go. And one school saying that he was simply too strict with the children. That the children seemed intimidated.

But does that mean that he actually committed the murder of JonBenet? When we spoke to Thailand's immigration chief here about the alleged confession, and he explain a little bit more about the details in which that first admission came forward just before he was about to go to sleep on the day he was arrested. Here's what Thailand's immigration chief said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. SUWAT THAMRONGRISAKUL, CHIEF OF IMMIGRATION: My officer told him that you know that you have a warrant, arrest warrant, from U.S. with a first-degree murder? And he stayed quiet, keep quiet, kept quiet. And then in the morning he said, it's not first degree. It's second degree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUBERT: And the arrest of Karr actually reveal a rather disturbing trend, which was as the Thai immigration chief said, some of the teachers that had been coming through to Bangkok, applying for jobs, may have had less than sterling records. Perhaps even criminal records. He said he's had at least two or three cases this year. Here's exactly what he said about those schools hiring teachers with dubious backgrounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THAMRONGRISAKUL: So many international school, you know, coming up. And then they try to hire cheap teacher, you know. Maybe sometime tourist. You know, just drop by and then apply to be a teacher and then they didn't check for the background, their background, so they accept them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUBERT: So clearly a pattern of strange behavior from Karr. But again, leaves more questions than answers in terms of whether or not he himself committed JonBenet's murder.

KAGAN: And what has been the reaction of the Thai public? Did they know of JonBenet Ramsey before? And are they shocked by this in a place where people come from all around the world for a child sex trade?

SHUBERT: Well, many people we spoke to on the street said they hadn't known about the JonBenet murder before the case of Karr's arrest. In fact, we spoke to one set of parents outside one of the schools where Karr worked and they said this was the first that they had heard of it. They said they were shocked. They were very surprised to learn that Karr had taught at the school.

But at the same time, their attitude was that this happened -- this was a crime that was committed a very long time ago. That they trusted the school. They also trusted the Thai police system to protect them from sexual predators. And they were putting a lot of trust in the institution there.

KAGAN: Atika Shubert live from Thailand. Thank you.

So we know the suspect, but what do we know about the case against him? A former prosecutor and defense attorney weighs in coming up.

Also, a warm welcome in southern Lebanon. The country's own soldiers move in for the first time in decades. That story is ahead on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We know of the suspect, but what do we know about the case against him? A former prosecutor and current defense attorney will weigh in, in just a few moments.

But first, let's get to some other news of the day. Including your CNN "Security Watch."

President Bush is at Camp David. He wants to talk about the economy, but the administration has a war on terror court decision to deal with. A federal judge has moved to pull the plug on warrantless domestic wiretaps. Our Elaine Quijano joins me from the White House.

Elaine, good morning.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.

A defeat and a legal setback for the Bush administration and its warrantless wiretap program. That ruling by a federal judge in Detroit, Michigan, came in response to a lawsuit filed by the ACLU. Now the Bush administration sharply disagrees with the rule. Saying that the surveillance program is legal and necessary.

That program carried out by the National Security Agency targets communications into and out of the United States when one of the parties involved is believed to have terrorist connections. Now Attorney General Alberto Gonzales says the administration plans to continue using the wiretap until an appellate hearing next month. He argues that the program is lawful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERA: Of course I'm disappointed. I believe very strongly that the president does have the authority to authorize this kind of conduct, particularly in a time of war. Conduct that's very consistent with what other presidents have done in a time of war. And we believe the authority comes from the authorization to use military force and from his constitutional authority as commander in chief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now that ruling and the debate over the NSA surveillance program comes just 80 some days before the congressional midterm elections. And ahead of that we've certainly seen President Bush and Republicans trying to tout their national security credentials. But Democrats have pounced on yesterday's ruling. They are making the argument that it is evidence that the Bush administration has mismanaged the war on terrorism.

Meantime, as for today, as you noted, President Bush is at Camp David. He is huddling with his economic team. And we should be hearing from him, Daryn, a little bit later on today. He's going to have a press availability later on.

Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. And you'll see that live here on CNN.

Elaine, let me ask you about how this whole wiretapping discussion plays into the investigation that foiled the alleged airline plot in the U.K.

QUIJANO: Yes, it's interesting. The Bush administration, Daryn, hasn't offered any kind of specific evidence that this NSA wiretap program in fact helped foil that terror plot. But it's interesting to note that earlier this week we saw President Bush at the State Department and he talked about this very program as being a necessary tool.

And, in fact, even hours after -- just hours after that investigation was made public, we heard the president make sort of a general defense of his tragedies in the war on terrorism, saying that essentially that plot showed why the administration thinks it is so critical that people who are fighting terrorism have all the tools they need to do their job.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Elaine Quijano at the White House. Elaine, thank you.

Once again, you'll see that Bush news conference later today in the next hour live here on CNN. CNN "Security Watch" keeps you up to date on your safety. Stay tuned day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Let's get back to the arrest in the JonBenet Ramsey case. Here is what we know right now just past the quarter hour.

Officials in Thailand say that suspect John Karr could be returned to the U.S. at any time. It comes as questions mount over his credibility.

Some legal experts cite inconsistencies between his reported claims and the evidence in the case. Meanwhile, the brother of the 41-year-old schoolteacher says that he will clear him. Later today he vows to expose the murder case as "just ridiculous."

For some legal perspective, we're joined by former prosecutor BJ Bernstein. She currently is a defense attorney here in Atlanta.

So you can understand how this case might be being built from both sides.

BJ BERNSTEIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Absolutely. You know, the prosecutors got probable cause clearly. There are some things we don't know. We do have this partial confession. And also the very disturbing e-mails that are starting to be revealed that he was writing. So that starts the first part, probably cause. But I think we're a long way from beyond a reasonable doubt.

KAGAN: Very long way. Yes, I mean the ick factor very high, but that's now what he's charged with.

Now we even heard the prosecutor say, you know, this arrest had to come before I wanted it to. Would that concern you if you were a prosecutor?

BERNSTEIN: To a certain extent. But remember, she's just arrested him. She hasn't indicted him. Most criminal cases, there's not an immediate indictment. There's usually at least 60 to 90 days that go by before the case is presented to the grand jury. That's what's really going to bring him into a trial judge to answer the charges. So she's got a little bit of time, not a lot of time, to shore up her case, to figure out the missing pieces and, most importantly, the things to corroborate his statements.

KAGAN: A 10-year-old case. How big of a key is DNA here? I mean you have to have it.

BERNSTEIN: We'll, DNA could be huge. Now there could be some other evidence that's out there. Someone could have seen him in the area. Those type of things. You don't have to have DNA. But if you do have DNA, that changes the entire specter of what's going on here. If you don't, then the defense counsel is just going to go on the attack.

KAGAN: Well, let's talk about defense counsel. Let's say you're hired at this guy's attorney. First thing, you want the guy to put a lid on it. I mean, stop talking.

BERNSTEIN: Well, exactly. And you've got to remember, he's in Thailand. He's in a foreign country. In a foreign jail. He doesn't necessarily have access to counsel like he would here. Even his family, if they wanted to hire counsel, probably had difficulty getting someone over there to get to him. So certainly you want to have him stop talking and then perhaps you need to get a psychological evaluation done.

When you're looking at the correspondence, when you're looking at his past history that we're learning bit by bit about him, about his marriage to young girls, his erratic behavior, even multiple firings from various jobs, those are all things that you want to take a step back and say, is this a sociopath? Is this someone who has a mental illness and maybe just attracted to JonBenet and being close to the case as opposed to actually being the killer.

KAGAN: Right, also very, very strange.

The Miranda warning, how would that play in to this? It's overseas. He's in the custody of international police force.

BERNSTEIN: That's going to be very much a subject of debate because you have him being taken into custody by Thai officials, but people from the United States, law enforcement from the United States, was supposedly there in on the arrest. They're in on his initial discussion. If they didn't advise him of his rights, your going to have a problem. Because you may be in Thailand now, but the truth of the matter is, this is a U.S. citizen in a U.S. court and the Constitution's going to apply.

KAGAN: If you're his defense attorney, what's the number one thing you want to do.

BERNSTEIN: Right now, figure out what's going on and get a handle on him. Talk to him. Find out what's happening and then see what it is that the district attorney has that's brought it to this point now.

KAGAN: All right. BJ Bernstein, thank you for your insight. Appreciate that.

John Karr's confession raises concerns about background checks on teachers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No fingerprints, no criminal background check, no job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Putting teachers to the test. A way to keep kids safe at school.

And Gerri Willis is here. I believe she's reaching in the mailbag today.

Hey, Ger.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Hi, Daryn. Good to see you.

What the government really does with your gas gouging complaints. You may be surprised. CNN, the most trusted name in news.

KAGAN: And before we go to break, here's Fredricka Whitfield with some breaking news.

Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Daryn.

Well, Reuters and AP, Associated Press, are reporting that an Italian air traffic agency is saying a British passenger plane belonging to the low cost XL airline service was diverted to a southern Italian airport because of a bomb scare. It's a Boeing 767. It was en route from Gatwick in London to Egypt when the pilot apparently asked to land this plane in Brindisi, Italy.

And the local police in Brindisi are telling Reuters news service that they could not confirm that there was indeed a bomb scare, but apparently something alerted the pilot seriously enough to try to divert this plane to southern Italy, which it has done. The plane is now on the ground. And, of course, when we get any more information about the circumstances that brought this plane down safely, we understand, in Brindisi, Italy, we'll be able to bring that to you later.

KAGAN: All right, Fred, thank you for that. And we'll take a break. We're back with much more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Let's get an update now on that British passenger plane forced to land in Italy.

Fred.

WHITFIELD: Well, right now we understand that this low cost airline, which was en route from Gatwick in London to Egypt, was diverted because something on board alarmed the pilot enough to divert this plane to southern Italy where it has landed in Brindisi.

We don't know the circumstances as to what they discovered. But apparently the diverting of this plane was as a result of a bomb scare. We're still trying to work out details about exactly what happened, how many people on board.

And, Daryn, there's another story here stateside that we're now looking into. In Florida, just north of Tampa, in the town of Spring Hill, Florida, apparently a bus with about 31 children on board was in a collision with this passenger vehicle. You're looking at the pictures right there. We are not getting any details as of yet about any kinds of injuries involved, but we do know that 31 children were on board this bus. It happened right in front of the elementary school there in Spring Hill, Florida.

KAGAN: OK. We'll keep an eye on both those stories. Fred, thank you.

Meanwhile, the markets have been open about an hour. Let's go ahead and see what they look like. Kind of a slow Friday. Kind of a funk there. The Dow is down 12 points. The Nasdaq also in negative territory. It is down 16 points.

Ah, but nothing to brighten our day and our markets like Gerri Willis. It is Friday, time to sift through Gerri's mailbag for viewer questions. Here is our personal finance editor Gerri Willis.

Gerri, good morning.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Daryn. Fire them at me. I'm ready to go.

KAGAN: All right. You ready, young lady. OK. The first one comes from Chase. "If I were to report a high gas price to the gaswatch.energy.gov web site, does the government actually look at it and use it? If so how fast?

WILLIS: Isn't this a great question from Chase. I think that's awesome.

The answer is, yes, according to the government. Your complaint forms are collected weekly by the Department of Energy and then it's like a mail chain. They're forwarded to the Federal Trade Commission, the U.S. Department of Justice and state attorney generals offices.

Now price gouging is usually the responsibility of the state A.G. office to investigate. And sometimes it can take as little as a few days to determine whether gouging is actually going on.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Mom and daughter have a question for you about textbooks. Lisa and Hannah want to know. As she says, "my daughter is starting college." Congratulations, by the way. "Her textbooks will cost over $1,000. Her friend is buying international edition textbooks online for 30 percent less. Are these books legal? Is the content close enough for her to use in class?"

WILLIS: Well, good news for Lisa and Hannah. It's perfectly legal to buy books from overseas. In fact, it's really a new trend because you can save up to 80 percent, which is a lot of money. OK. International textbooks, however, have their downsides. They don't include CD-ROMs or glossy photos. And the biggest difference, of course, sometimes page numbers and chapters may be out of order. So if you buy them, know that and then try to get the edition that will be used in class. A couple of places you can go to buy these books amazon.com.uk and bestbookbuys.com. KAGAN: So there's no copyright infringement? It's not like someone's using a Xerox machine overseas?

WILLIS: You're fine. You're fine to buy those overseas. It's not a problem. But, you know, there are a few issues.

KAGAN: OK. Karen wants to know -- she's a traveler. She wants to know if the TSA can open the "luggage locks that would keep my stuff safe inside of my suitcase?"

WILLIS: Short answer here, yes. If your luggage sets off alarms, the Transportation Security Administration can destroy the lock. Now you can buy TSA approved locks that can be opened by security in case of an emergency. And to find these -- see, you can see them right here. To find these, go to safeskieslocks.com or travelcentury.org.

Daryn.

KAGAN: And then our "nice try" award today goes to Brett in Iowa who came up with this ingenious thinking. He says that he's young, 24, "and Social Security, as you know, is crumbling and will barely be able to cover groceries in the future. Is there a way to not pay for Social Security?" He just doesn't want to participate. He wants to know if there's a form somewhere where you can say, no thank you.

WILLIS: Yes, Brett's not an optimist. And, sadly, I don't have good news for him. There's no way out of paying Social Security. However, what you can do is go work for Uncle Sam. If you switch employers, you may not have to pay. State and federal employees don't have to pay Social Security in many states, but you still have to pay into a pension plan.

So, Daryn, your viewers, don't forget to e-mail us. We love answering your questions. What do you want to know about? Send us an e-mail. We'll answer them right here every Friday. Toptips@cnn.com.

KAGAN: Gerri, thank you. Good to have you on.

WILLIS: Thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you.

WILLIS: John Mark Karr, what he said, what investigators know and what it means to the case. Inconsistencies ahead.

And the warm welcome in southern Lebanon. The country's own soldiers move in. This is the first time this has happened in decades. A live report is coming up.

And are North Korean scientists setting up a nuclear test. Some disturbing signs ahead on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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