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American Morning

U.S./China Standoff: Still Unclear Whether Meeting With Crew Is Taking Place

Aired April 06, 2001 - 09:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: A couple of minutes ago here on CNN live this morning, we heard Major Garrett at the White House describe the situation with the U.S.-China standoff as fluid, and that, apparently, is a very good word, indeed, to describe what is taking place. We have yet another update about this meeting that we are wait -- I guess apparently now waiting to take place between U.S. diplomats and the 24 crewmembers who are being held on Hainan.

Let's bring in our producer Lisa Rose Weaver who is standing by on Hainan Island. Lisa Rose, what is the latest? Is this meeting taking place, or is it not?

LISA ROSE WEAVER, CNN PRODUCER: Well, this is a situation of high flux. I think it's fair to say that, at this very moment, we don't know if it is. As of 25 minutes ago, a spokesman for the U.S. delegation here said that Lieutenant General Sealock and his colleagues who were meant to meet the crew were on their way to do so but had not done it -- not done so at that point. Whether that meeting is happening as we speak, we just don't know.

Now this latest flip-flop follows a statement earlier this evening from the U.S. Embassy. The U.S. Embassy reversed itself and said that a meeting, which it had understood was happening, in fact, was not happening. So, again, we're expecting to hear quite soon from the U.S. side and possibly the Chinese side, and it looks like that statement is imminent. This is high-flux situation.

KAGAN: Lisa, do you think some of the confusion is coming because the meeting is taking place or is set to take place on the Hainan Island but the information is coming out of Beijing. Why all the confusion?

WEAVER: Well, that's possibly -- it -- that could be the case. Yes. There is also the possibility that -- well, yes, I think -- I think there's a strong possibility that a lapsed time between information coming out of Beijing and trickling down to the local level may -- may be responsible for this. But, obviously, the fact that the U.S. Embassy said one thing at one point and then another at another gave -- it led people to believe that what they said was, in fact, what was happening.

KAGAN: So I guess until we actually hear from the officials who are there to conduct the meeting on Hainan Island, we really won't know exactly when the meeting has taken place, and we're standing by waiting to hear that, as I understand it.

WEAVER: Yes. That's right.

KAGAN: OK. Then we will leave you standing by to have you call in and tell us when we get the latest on that. That is Lisa Rose Weaver -- CNN's Lisa Rose Weaver on the ground in Hainan Island.

Once again, the situation fluid. It's still not exactly clear if this meeting has taken place, if it's taking place, or if it has yet to take place, but, of course, we will track that and bring you the latest as we have it.

KAGAN: Right now, we're going to get some insight into the political leadership in China and how that plays into the efforts to resolve the standoff.

Joining us now from Albany, New York, is Professor Cheng Li. He is a China expert and a professor of government at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York.

Professor, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

CHENG LI, HAMILTON COLLEGE GOVERNMENT PROFESSOR: Good morning.

KAGAN: I want to start by asking you -- any insight perhaps that you could provide in terms of why is there even the limited contact that the Americans are being offered between the diplomats and the crewmembers, and why the confusion over why they might be meeting?

CHENG LI: Well, the -- there are two reasons. One, Chinese government has dilemmas, both at home and also in terms of China's relation with the United States. At home, they -- they are very much concerned -- the timing China should have returned crewmembers because there's a very strong resentment, I guess, against what the Chinese people call America's arrogance.

If China immediately return these crewmembers and -- the government would be looked -- would be seen as too soft. That's not popular because they probably will be criticized by doing so.

And the international front -- because they are very much concerned about Taiwan issue. They want to use that incident as a bargaining power how we can ask the U.S. to reduce the spy -- flyover the Taiwan Strait and how we can also have bargaining power into U.S. decision to sell weapons to Taiwan and etcetera.

KAGAN: What about the different factions within the Chinese government? You have the Americans talking with and doing diplomacy with the foreign ministry, but it's actually the military that's holding the crewmembers. They're actually on the military base. So who's in charge here? Who's driving the bus, so to speak?

CHENG LI: Well, that's clear. The political leadership is in charge, and we should not go too far to say there's military -- become very important. No, because there's no strong military figure, and according to Chinese government, they always have a saying that the army should obey the order of the party.

So it's a -- very much the mil -- the political leadership is in charge. Yes, military has its role, just as -- like a bureaucratic institution along with like national security ministry and the foreign affair ministry, economic sector, and so forth, but just as -- the one interest group -- but, again, the political leadership is in charge.

KAGAN: I'm wondering if you can provide us with some cultural insight on this whole hang up over apology. As a -- someone who's from China and has lived in America many years, do the two cultures see the idea of apology differently or even just the definitions of the word?

CHENG LI: Well, there are two reasons, and one gives a historical reason, and for 150 years that China always think that China was mistreated and -- because of the opium war, because of the foreign invasion, etcetera. So this comes into a victimized mentality. So they play a role.

But, most importantly, is the recent events, and -- such as -- they call it the modernization of China or China bashing, and the Taiwan issue and its difficulties to trade and negotiation in term of China's entry to WTO -- they -- so they make them unhappy.

KAGAN: You bring up the WTO, and that -- that brings to mind that -- that where it seems that China holds all the cards here in the fact that they have the plane and the crewmembers. There are some things that China very much wants.

CHENG LI: Oh, definitely.

KAGAN: That has -- that has to be in the back of their minds as well. There is the entry into the WTO, there is the idea of America selling arms to Taiwan, and then there's something much more lighthearted but important to the Chinese, and that is getting the summer Olympics in the future.

CHENG LI: Well, yeah. There -- there are a lot of interests. China want to part of the international community. It's not in China's interest to be isolated, to be enemy of the United States, and -- but, at the same time, they are very much concerned the China's national security -- or national sovereignty issue. Again, they look at Taiwan issue as a matter of national sovereignty, territory integrity, and national security. For them, this is vital interest.

And they refer to WTO. Yes, of course, China wants to be WTO because China benefits greatly from the international trade and ex -- particularly export and the foreign investment and capital and technology. But, at the same time, now they -- Chinese government said that it's a mutual benefit, not only benefit for China but also benefit for the United States.

KAGAN: That is true. Getting -- getting back to the missile issue. President Bush has to decide by the end for this month what kind of arms to sell to Taiwan, and I would imagine that it would go at a much better way if the Americans weren't so upset with the Chinese. They have to be considering that as well.

CHENG LI: Well, that's true. Yeah. Again, it's nothing knew that the U.S. sells weapons to Taiwan, and the Chinese government says it understands that. But now they become firm on certain issues because they thought that they have the -- the public opinion backing for China, but they also very much worried that -- not only the U.S. plan to enter Taiwan to the missile defense but also very much worried the U.S. plane to establish to the national defense -- national missile -- NMD, national missile defense, which will modernize China's nuclear-deterrence force. So they -- they think that they're under threat.

KAGAN: And, Professor, quickly, as we wrap this up, looking back to -- looking right where we are right now, a little confusing this morning in terms of the diplomats meeting with the Americans, but do you see any encouraging signs of this situation being resolved?

CHENG LI: Yes, I do. I do. I look -- the Chinese media did not talk about the regrets, and also the criticism of the United States actually -- it seemed to me calmed down, and I would foresee that the issue probably in the coming days would be resolved. I think if China would return -- definitely they -- it's not their interest to hold these crewmembers for too long, and I think this is their interest to solve that problem quickly.

KAGAN: Professor Cheng Li from Hamilton College in New York State. Thank you so much for joining us, sir.

CHENG LI: Thank you very much.

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