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American Morning

Lessons From Columbine: What Have We Learned?

Aired April 18, 2001 - 09:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: This week marks the second anniversary of the deadly school shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. Twelve students and one teacher were killed in the shootings. The two student gunmen committed suicide.

In the two years since that shooting, questions have been raised about the time it took police to get inside the school building on the day of the shooting. Steve Davis is a former deputy sheriff who worked on the Columbine case and was a guest earlier today on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DAVIS, FORMER DEPUTY SHERIFF: I think there were officers inside there about 30 to 40 minutes afterwards.

Now, the first mobilized SWAT team, yes, that was a while before they got in. But there was a group, an ad hoc SWAT team, if you will, that entered 30 or 40 minutes after the incident.

Granted, there were two shooters in there, and we've had two years now to learn all this, but at that moment, we had reports of up to eight gunmen inside the school, there were explosions going off. So, there were a lot of things that we didn't know at that moment that we do today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, since Columbine, there have been other school shooting incidents, as you well know, and it's a continuing concern for parents, students, educators, law enforcement and psychologists.

Joining us now from Littleton, Colorado is Rick Kaufman. He is spokesman for the Jefferson County School District, and from Washington, psychologist Scott Poland, who participated in aftermath guidance teams at Columbine and some of these other school shootings we've been reporting here on CNN.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for coming in and talking with us this morning. I'd like to begin with you, Mr. Kaufman.

I want to ask you whether or not you have seen these recent reports that have shown -- that have been rather critical of what's happened there in Columbine and how the police should have gone or could have gone in earlier and how people in the community could have actually stopped this thing from happening, because of all the signs that had been there. What is your response to these reports that you've seen lately?

RICK KAUFMAN, SPOKESMAN, JEFFERSON COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT: Well, they're certainly troubling, from a number of respects. especially this week being the second-year anniversary, in addition to -- there are a number of dates this week that are significant for a lot of reasons. So it's very difficult.

And with the airing last night of the program on "60 Minutes II," I can tell you that it was not only very disheartening to see the program, that it's aired this week, but it is -- will have a profound emotional impact on our students, our staff and our community today and in the days to come.

HARRIS: Yes, you're disheartened by it, sure. But was the report wrong?

KAUFFMAN: I don't want to say the report was wrong. I believe it was a recitation of a lot of the information that we already know, and I believe Steve Davis touched on it pretty accurately that what we are looking at today are two individuals that are mass murderers. What we were looking at two years ago were two individuals that were actively involved in school, actively involved with groups of friends, they were excelling in school academically. And while they were some instances where they had gotten into trouble, nothing at that time led any of our staff members to believe that they had this incredibly tragic attack planned.

HARRIS: Scott Poland, in Washington, you know, one of the things that your group and experts like you have been recommending all along is to have experts in the schools, have adults that people can talk to about these sort of problems and to give these tips to once they see these sorts of signs surface. And that was already in place in a number of these schools that we've been talking about recently. Why hasn't that been working? SCOTT POLAND, SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST: The National Association of School Psychologists believes very strongly in providing mental health services to students in our schools. We believe that school safety is an inside job that, most of all, involves a commitment from the student body. We have a national crisis team that has served in the aftermath of almost every school shooting in recent memory.

I, personally, did go to Columbine and Jefferson County, and have nothing but admiration for their school system, their sensitivity and their attempts to help their school and community recover and cope with this tragedy.

HARRIS: You know, one of the comments I'm reading from you from when you talked to our researchers is that, you know, it's difficult to identify the troubled children, but we don't have the resources to help the families. What do you mean by that?

POLAND: What I know is, it is the rare school psychologist that really gets to provide mental health services, and many school counselors in America are too busy scheduling and doing clerical duties, and we need to recognize the importance of mental health services in our entire society and especially provide those services to children in our schools.

HARRIS: Mr. Kaufman, what about the families that are there in Littleton. Certainly, have all been changed by this incident now and they've had two years to sort of look back on it and they've also seen what's been happening in other places around the country. What lessons do you think they'll be able to give to other parents in other communities around the country?

KAUFMAN: Well, I think one of the things that has been -- what we have focused on, certainly, for two years has been healing and continuing to move forward for the community; not to forget, because we will never forget.

But I think one of the most powerful things that "60 Minutes" failed to show last night and others have failed to touch on is the work around the mental health pieces, around the counseling pieces, around the programs that we have put in place since the tragedy, and actually, before the tragedy, were in place that we've expounded on. And I think that's the missing piece that a lot of people don't know about or don't give credit to.

Nothing "60 Minutes" aired last night was new to us, and it's something that we need to take some time now and probably do a better job of communicating to our community about what was learned last night.

HARRIS: No doubt the students at Columbine, I assume, or Santee in San Diego would never -- won't have to be retaught this lesson of when you hear something, you know, go ahead and tell someone. You don't continue this conspiracy of silence.

Dr. Poland, I want to ask you, what is it -- how is it that that message doesn't seem to be getting across everywhere. We still keep being surprised by how students and teachers and adults are being surprised to see students do the things that they're doing, even though they've been hearing or seeing signs all along?

POLAND: Unfortunately, I believe we've done a poor job in our society of separating incessant tattling about the things that don't matter from the things that do. I also believe we know the origins of youth violence in our society and we need to work on those.

And I think we need to clearly give out the message that schools are the safest places children go. We need to work on preventing tragedies with children in our communities. We need to pay attention to media influences, gun access. We need better parenting. We need to limit violence in our homes and communities. All of those things will reduce youth violence.

HARRIS: Rick Kaufman in Columbine, a spokesman for Columbine High School, and Scott Poland with the -- a psychologist from Washington, thank you very much for your time this morning and we wish both of you good luck in the future. KAUFMAN: Thank you.

POLAND: You're welcome.

KAUFMAN: Thank you.

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