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American Morning

Angry Cincinnati Residents Speak Out

Aired April 18, 2001 - 10:22   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I am back with Kenneth Lawson, attorney for the estate and family of Timothy Thomas. Sorry for the interruption.

We were talking about police brutality and you were expressing the opinion that race and racism are part of that problem. Given that case, how do you change things? This is a profound problem all across society not only in the ranks of police.

KENNETH LAWSON, ATTORNEY FOR TIMOTHY THOMAS: I think the only way things are going to change is once police officers are properly disciplined or put in prison or personally lose their jobs or their money through civil suits. Right now, you've got police officers who do wrong, they don't get disciplined. They're not prosecuted. There's no threat of the penitentiary above their head. And whenever they're sued, the city pays, not the police officer.

MESERVE: Not true in every case. The Louima case, as I recall, there were pretty stiff penalties for the officers involved in that.

LAWSON: And I think that's a start of a trend of -- hopefully we can see. But until that blue line, the code of silence, is broken that exists among the police, you're not going to have too many prosecutions.

MESERVE: Talk about that code of silence and the police culture and how this becomes a factor here. I have read comments of yours that you think the promotion system within police departments has something to do with it.

LAWSON: Yeah. I believe that a lot of young cops want to be promoted based on their arrests. And so they use race, whether it's African Americans or Latinos as a factor in determining whether or not someone is doing drugs. And so you get a Deion Sanders an Ickey Woods or someone like that pulled over based on the color of skin. And the police officers believe that most black men driving nice cars must be doing drugs or doing something illegal. That's what leads to your profiling.

But you also have the police who, again with this code of silence, who will protect one another when they know they are doing wrong. And because of that protection, it's hard to prosecute. So you end up have a citizen's word who is accused of a crime going against an officer's word in a court of law. And most judges side with the officer.

MESERVE: The shooting of Timothy Thomas has of course put Cincinnati in considerable turmoil. For the moment, things are calm. Give me your forecast of what is going to happen in that city in the coming days and weeks.

LAWSON: I think all eyes are on the grand jury to determine if Officer Roach, who is the officer that shot Timothy Thomas, is going to be prosecuted. I think that Cincinnati has been waiting for justice, has been crying out for justice, for years. And that's why you saw the riots last week.

I believe if the indictment doesn't occur, I think the city is looking at a -- or sitting on another powder keg. And I don't know what's going to happen.

MESERVE: There have been 15 shootings of black men in that city since 1995.

LAWSON: That's correct.

MESERVE: Is this simply an untrackable problem in that city at least?

LAWSON: I think that when you compare -- my understanding from some of the news reports is that other than Oakland, California, Cincinnati has the highest death rate of black males shot by the police than any other city in the nation. There's a problem there.

I represent whites who are charged with crimes too who have held knives, who may have had guns, but haven't been shot. I don't -- there's a problem there. And it has to be addressed.

MESERVE: Kenneth Lawson, thanks so much for joining us.

LAWSON: Thanks for having me.

MESERVE: And we will be listening to that symposium today over at American University.

LAWSON: All right.

MESERVE: Thanks.

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