Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Bob Kerrey's Actions in Vietnam Defended by Senator

Aired April 26, 2001 - 11:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Back now to the story that we had on before the break: The story this morning that's being reported in a number of different outlets that, perhaps, former Senator Bob Kerrey of Nebraska, when he was a Navy Seal, played a part and may have led the actual murder of innocent civilians in Vietnam. Now, we heard Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts defend him in the Senate -- well, in the Senate yesterday.

And Senator John Kerry joins us now from Washington to talk about this and give us some more insight into what exactly is going on here.

Senator Kerry, we thank you very much for coming in and talking with us. And I'd like to know, first of all: Have you talked with Bob Kerrey lately?

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), NEBRASKA: Yes, I have.

HARRIS: And can you share with us what you may have talked with him about in the wake of this controversy?

KERRY: Well, I think Bob, obviously, you know, knows that -- I mean, this is something that has bothered him for a long period of time. He knows that. But I think it's important for people in this country to really have an historical perspective and remember what was happening in Vietnam then, what the military policy was, what Seals and a lot of folks in different positions over there were asked to do and ordered to do.

The fact is there were very dangerous, very difficult missions; things happened in the dead of night. They happened to all kinds of people in all sorts of places in Vietnam. And I think that, you know, it's very difficult here, where you have differing memories with respect to that, that suddenly are coming murder 30-plus years later out of historical context.

The fact is that the United States government had an assassination program, it was called the Phoenix program. And literally thousands of people, as part of the effort to deny the political infrastructure of the Viet Cong was to go in at night and take people out. All of a sudden, 30 years later, people are turning their backs on the fact.

I mean, the United States dropped an atom bomb on Nagasaki and Hiroshima; innocent children and women were killed. We bombed Germany every night from London as planes went out and dropped bombs. We firebombed Dresden. Tough things happen in war, and 30-plus years later, you know, when he comes forward and says, look, you know, this has haunted me for a long time, people died innocently as the consequence of something we were doing. I think people need to remember the history and remember how difficult it was.

HARRIS: Yes, and I think we all understand your feelings on that and where you're coming from; after all, you, yourself served as well over there, and admirably so.

And I want to ask you something, and I'm asking you this, sir, at the risk of offense. But I must ask you, because you admitted yourself here that there are different memories about what has happened, or what may have happened in all of these different incidents. Can you explain to us why it is that we should be relieving Senator Kerrey's version of these events, because we have seen reports of people who were there with him on that particular mission, and their memories are starkly different and actually a bit more controversial.

KERRY: No, I understand that. And I read the story, and I obviously couldn't help but take notice of that. I mean, I can't, you know, belie the fact there are different opinions here.

That's -- I think Bob Kerrey is going to speak to people about that. I think that he and his unit addressed that. But clearly there are others in the unit that have the same memory as Bob. And so it seems to me, you have to try to say, well how do we sort this out 30 years later? There are different memories of it. I mean, I don't know if there's any way to resolve that, in the end.

But I know Bob Kerrey as a friend; I've known him as someone I've served with. I have enormous respect for him and affection for him. And he is somebody that I feel a special bond with, as do all of us who served in Vietnam. And I think that this is obviously difficult.

But you've got to go back to that period of time and look at what was happening, what the context was -- the larger context. This effort of Seals going out at night in Vietnam into secret zones that were free-fire zones -- remember that. These were defined areas where anyone you found was defined by our military as enemy. The law -- the rule of engagement was: You were permitted to kill anybody found in a free-fire zone. Obviously, if you saw a child in a difficult situation, you didn't do that. But when you had a night mission, the mission might be compromised by what you were doing.

I believe, from my memory, that that is part of the procedure of what took place. It was brutal, it was tough; but war is brutal and tough. And people who weren't there, and people who don't remember the historical context of the Phoenix program or all of that, I think ought to think twice before they start second-guessing this 30 years later.

HARRIS: And Senator Kerry, I have interviewed Senator Bob Kerrey a number of times, and many of us who have know that he has never really been one to back away from tough questions and he's never been one to back away from revealing things about himself. But this is something that he has kept to himself for some 32 years -- or has not been speaking openly and easily about it; and yet it's come out now.

And I'd like to ask you whether or not you talked with him about this, because it's being speculated -- and that is still speculation -- that perhaps this is only coming out now because he is intending to run for president at some point and he wants to get this out of the way.

KERRY: Let me just say to you: Look, I had lunch with Bob a couple of months ago in New York, and I hope I'm not violating any confidences, but I will tell you, he is so focused on his wife, on a new baby that's coming, on his new job as president. He didn't mention, to me, politics. He is so relieved to be doing something different for a while. And that's what he went to do.

And unfortunately, everybody always sees everything that any of us do only in a political context. I can assure you that right now, you know, prior to this in the last months, elective office is the farthest thing, on a personal level, from Bob Kerrey's mind.

But going even further than that: You know, I think that it's really important to remember that, yes, he's kept this part of a sort of -- you know, pent-up, caught-up part of him. But go back and look at a lot of guys who came back from Vietnam: People forget that we've lost almost as many Vietnam veterans since the war as died during the war. We've had people who still haven't gotten their lives together.

That was a very difficult period of time, and the inclination of most guys who came back from Vietnam who saw a lot of combat and were troubled by the war was to turn inwards, to not become involved in VA activities and the veteran's efforts. A lot of guys just, sort of, put it aside. That was a very natural instinct from people who served in Vietnam. And you'll find Vietnam veterans all over the country who, today, are for the first time going to counseling groups or talking to people about post-Vietnam Stress Syndrome and other things.

You know, one would have wished that he would have talked about it sooner. I've known Bob for a long time. I never even knew he's been awarded a bronze star; never knew it. That's how, sort of, it played in his life. And I think that -- absolutely. And I only learned it the day before yesterday when I read the story.

So I think people, again, need to step back a little bit. This is horrible, and he has said again and again, I mean, you know, killing is what he was asked to learn how do to and to do on behalf of his country. And he did that in this context. This was not a kind of, you know, daylight operation, where people somehow lost and were in reckless abandon. This is a nighttime operation deep in enemy territory in a free-fire zone, in a place where their lives were at stake. And you make judgments in that kind of situation. And I think that people need to understand what war is like.

HARRIS: Well, I'm sure that Senator Bob Kerrey is quite happy and grateful to have you come out and defend him as you have. And we are -- I just want to say that we're grateful to have you come in and help us try to figure this whole story out and explain it to us. We sure do appreciate it.

KERRY: Well, it's a tough story...

HARRIS: It is.

KERRY: .. no question about it.

But, you know, there are a lot of other vets around the country, and if you go back and read the history of those veterans who spoke out when they came back and in 1969, '70 and '71, they talked about some of the things that happened over there that were very tough. This is not the first time we've heard about it. And I think people need to put it in its historical context.

HARRIS: Well, we sure thank you for doing so fir us this morning. Senator John Kerry with us live this morning from Capitol Hill; thanks much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com