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American Morning

Religious Minorities in Afghanistan React Angrily to Government-Mandated Identity Badges

Aired May 23, 2001 - 10:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Religious minorities in Afghanistan are reacting angrily to a ruling from the Taleban government that Hindus and Sikhs must wear yellow badges to identify themselves. The Taleban claim control of nearly all of Afghanistan, and they impose hard-line Islamic views. Our next guest has traveled to Afghanistan. He did so late last year. Sebastian Junger of "Vanity Fair" magazine joins us from New York with some more perspective on this.

Thank you, it's good to see you this morning.

SEBASTIAN JUNGER, "VANITY FAIR" MAGAZINE: Thank you.

HARRIS: Many people are looking at this and, of course, are drawing the obvious comparison to what happened in Nazi Germany. Is this the same thing going on there in Afghanistan?

JUNGER: Not quite, I don't think. I mean, there are disturbing things happening in Afghanistan. There is ethnic cleansing going on against the Tajiks and the Hazaras. At this point, the Hindus -- it's almost like registering for the draft. I don't think the Taleban, even if they wanted to, would dare really cleanse the Hindus out of Afghanistan, but they want to know where they are and I think they want to make a statement about the degree of their belief in Islam. It's a very clumsy application of Islam. It seems like this is one -- some elements in the government believe this is one way to prove their devotion.

HARRIS: But many who have been watching the Taleban over the years have said that they've begun to get increasingly bolder and bolder about pushing their ideology out there and forcing everyone in the country to follow it. What makes you believe that they would not follow progression here and pursue a policy or some sort of a pogrom, if you will, of these people?

JUNGER: I don't know that for sure, and certainly they've acted badly against the other ethnic in minorities, Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazaras, and there absolutely is evidence of ethnic cleansing along the battle front between the opposition forces and the Taleban. I've spoken with refugees, absolute evidence of ethnic cleansing.

These Hindus, they're really -- they've been incorporated into the society in the Taleban areas, and I think that even they -- even the Taleban realized that they have more to lose by getting rid of these 20,000 people than by sort of monitoring them and keeping them sequestered. I think even they can even make that determination.

But you don't know what the future holds in store. I think regimes get more severe the more they -- the more -- the weaker they feel their grip on power is, and I think good indication of some of the problems that they're experiencing as a government.

HARRIS: What are you hearing about this -- is there any reaction from the wider Arab community about the -- the wider Islamic community, I should say, about this? It would strike me because they keep basing -- they say their basing this policy and this ideology in Islam. And I believe that if this were to happen, wouldn't this be seen wider in the community, in the Islamic world? Wouldn't you see this kind of thing happening more often, and we don't see it happening?

JUNGER: No, I think there in the position -- the wider Islamic community are in the position that many Christians are when, say, in the 80s, the Christian fundamentalists were proposing outrageous rules and laws in this country. It's embarrassing for someone who has a sort of even interpretation of their religion. That kind of extremism is always embarrassing in any religion.

I think Islam is no exception. It's a very -- in its ideal form, it's a very peaceful, accepting religion, accepting of other religions and obviously, this is not an example of this. I think it's very embarrassing.

HARRIS: I've heard the same thing from many people who have studied it for years and years. Let me ask you quickly, if I can, because you made an interesting comment to our producers here, our researchers here. You were saying something about as bad as this happens to be or as it happens to look, there's worse going on in that country. What have you seen?

JUNGER: I was with the forces of Ahmad Shah Masood, the opposition leader still fighting the Taleban in the northeast. There is a vicious civil war going on. Afghanistan is basically caught within the huge gears of Central Asia, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Russia, United States, Iran, and the -- it's just a terrible situation with refugees.

There's hundreds of thousands of refugees being created by this war, and it's a war that is being in part fueled by Pakistan. And we have a lot of influence on Pakistan. We could mitigate their involvement and we haven't yet. And it really is something we should do.

HARRIS: I wish we had more time to talk about this. Sebastian Junger, perhaps we will sometime in the future. Please stay in touch on this one. Take care.

JUNGER: OK, thank you.

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