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American Morning

Timothy McVeigh Attorneys Set to File Appeal Papers Today

Aired June 07, 2001 - 10:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Now the latest on the case of Timothy McVeigh. Lawyers for the Oklahoma City bomber are due to file papers this hour in an effort to postpone his execution, which is now still scheduled for Monday. CNN's Susan Candiotti is in Denver where the appeal will be filed and our Jeff Flock is in Terre Haute outside the federal prison where McVeigh remains on death row and our Gary Tuchman is in Oklahoma City, the epicenter of the developing story.

We're going to be starting with you, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Donna.

After burning the midnight oil, attorneys for Timothy McVeigh will soon be filing their brief here at the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver. It could be a tough sell. After all, this is the very same court who hand picked trial Judge Richard Matsch to try this case and none of his rulings has been reversed yet.

Judge Matsch on Wednesday ruled that the evidence against Timothy McVeigh was overwhelming and that the jury's verdict ordering the death sentence for Timothy McVeigh should be upheld. The government applauded the decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN CONNELLY, PROSECUTOR: It was a powerful and eloquent statement not only about the law associated with this case, but about the tremendous harm and devastation caused by Timothy McVeigh. Judge Matsch found that for anybody that sat through the evidence and heard the evidence at trial, there can be no doubt that Timothy McVeigh exploded a Ryder truck bomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah federal building on April 19th, 1995, killing 168 men, women and children and maiming and injuring scores more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: If Timothy McVeigh does not win an appeal here, the current plan is to head to the U.S. Supreme Court. The final decision is Timothy McVeigh's. One of his former defense team members says he might stand a better chance with the U.S. Supreme Court because that court has not totally closed the doors on a similar claim by Terry Nichols.

JERALYN MERRITT, FORMER MCVEIGH DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Judge Matsch seemed to base his decision on whether or not Timothy McVeigh was guilty. I think there's a larger issue and I think that the larger issue is the integrity of the trial and the verdict and the process. And I think the Supreme Court might have more pause as to whether that was satisfied and whether the American people can count on the integrity of the verdict in this case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Once the briefs are filed, there is no telling how long it will take for this court to make a decision. However, they do have a habit of working rather quickly. It could be just a few hours. Back to you, Donna.

KELLEY: Susan, you say working rather quickly, but I don't know if you've had a chance to talk to some of McVeigh's attorneys and see if they're worried that with the steps they want to take legally if they could run out of time.

CANDIOTTI: That's always a possibility. Naturally they're concerned. They said that they have prepared the best possible brief they can. They believe that they are on solid ground and they hope that they can get reversed, but they know that time is of the essence here. If this court rules against them, they have to make a decision quickly to move to the U.S. Supreme Court.

KELLEY: All right, from Denver, Susan Candiotti, thanks.

And then off to Jeff Flock, who's in Terre Haute -- Jeff?

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donna, waiting on Nathan Chambers at this hour. Had a report just a little bit ago that he was here already. But the Bureau of Prisons assures CNN that he has not yet arrived, although he is expect within the hour. Chambers, of course, a member of the McVeigh defense team here in Indiana to meet face to face here in Terre Haute with Tim McVeigh.

Now, where is McVeigh right now? We've had a lot of question about that. We want to give you some pictures that depict where he is on the special confinement unit, what they call the SCU, here at the Terre Haute penitentiary. It is where everyone on federal death row is now residing, about 20 people there right now, although it can accommodate as many as 50 people. Each of the inmates on death row in an 8-by-10 cell like this one, which includes a bunk, a desk and a small black and white television.

Now, as to McVeigh and what he will discuss with

Nathan Chambers, as Susan indicated, the decision is McVeigh's about whether he goes forward with the appeals. Nathan Chambers when he arrived in Indiana overnight didn't have much to say about what he would talk about with McVeigh, but he did say that he knew the appeals process was going to be a difficult one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN CHAMBERS, MCVEIGH ATTORNEY: It's an uphill climb when you get in the appellate courts, but I'm not going to prejudge it. Let the courts make their decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLOCK: Now, the prominence of McVeigh has somewhat overshadowed the fact that the execution, if it comes off on Monday at seven local time, eight Eastern, would be the first federal execution since 1963. It has also, in some sense, overshadowed the case of the man who would be next, or, perhaps if the McVeigh execution is put off, would be first. He is Juan Raul Garza. In fact, prison officials within the hour are going to be meeting with members of the news media, reporters, to talk about the logistics of the coverage of the Garza execution, which is now set for the 19th.

So, they believe that they're going to have an execution here in Indiana one way or another in the next two weeks, whether it be Tim McVeigh or Juan Garza. And, of course, we wait now to figure out who that'll be. Again, it's in Tim McVeigh's hands and we await Nathan Chambers' arrival here, his meeting with McVeigh, which should take a while, and then to come out, perhaps, and give us some indication.

We'll watch it. Back to you folks.

KELLEY: OK, Jeff Flock in Terre Haute.

And onto our Gary Tuchman, CNN. He is in Oklahoma City -- Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Donna, behind me is the Oklahoma City National Memorial Center. This is where the Murrah Federal Building used to stand. This is where the worst U.S. terrorist incident on U.S. soil ever occurred in 1995. But now it's one of the most peaceful places you'll ever see. One hundred sixty- eight chairs made of glass and bronze sit where the building used to be, each symbolizing one of the people who perished in the April 19th terrorist explosion. Many of the relatives are very comforted by the chairs and this reflecting pool, a soothing visual element for the people who come here and look. That's where Fifth Street used to be. That is the street where Timothy McVeigh parked his Ryder truck six years and two months ago.

And it's the fate of Timothy McVeigh that's being talked about very much here in Oklahoma City today. Still, many family members of victims are very surprised by the decision yesterday from the judge.

Kathy Wilburn is one of those people. She is the grandmother of Chase and Colton Smith, the 2- and 3-year-old who were killed in the blast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHY WILBURN, GRANDMOTHER OF VICTIMS: I was dumbfounded. I was very much so surprised.

TUCHMAN: Tell me why it was so surprising to you.

WILBURN: I just thought in light of the evidence that's been withheld that it would take more time to go through it. I know, you know, I have no doubt that Timothy McVeigh is guilty, but I have a big question in my mind about the others that were involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Many in the legal community were also surprised. The man who was the U.S. attorney here in Oklahoma City who prosecuted Timothy McVeigh in Denver, Patrick Ryan, said he thought the decision could have gone either way yesterday and he was prepared for a stay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK RYAN, FORMER MCVEIGH PROSECUTOR: Would it have hurt to have more time? It wouldn't have hurt. I don't think it would have made any difference. His own lawyers admitted yesterday in open court, as I understand it, that we are not contesting that he was the bomber. If he's the bomber, as he's admitted he is and as his lawyers have admitted he is, what do you need more time for?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Now, interestingly, Patrick Ryan lives here in Oklahoma City. We just talked to him a few minutes ago right here in front of the museum. He told us he has never been inside the museum behind me. He says it's all still too raw emotionally for him to go inside this museum which is dedicated to the victims of the bombing.

On the other side of the coin, Stephen Jones, the defense attorney who represented Timothy McVeigh during the trial in Denver, went inside this museum for the first time yesterday. He toured the facility and then he bought two videos in the museum gift shop -- Donna, back to you.

KELLEY: Our Gary Tuchman, thanks very much -- Leon?

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, for some perspective on this, let's check in now with our legal analyst, Roger Cossack, who's standing by in Washington. Roger, almost to a man I've heard everyone has expressed surprised at the decision that Judge Matsch handed down yesterday. Would you join that group?

ROGER COSSACK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'm afraid so, Leon. There's no hiding from my prediction. I thought there would be a stay. I've said it before. I based it on the fact that I just thought the defense would not have a difficult time getting an additional 30 or 45 days in light of the fact that the FBI were negligent in turning over that material and that they could argue we need that much time just to review what's there and see if we can therefore in the future present an argument to the court that might change things. But Judge Matsch said, you know, there's really nothing that you can present to me that's going to change what the facts are and the facts are Timothy McVeigh drove that truck alone up to the Murrah Federal Building, lit it up and blew up that building and for that he's going to pay the price.

HARRIS: And for him that was the bottom line, the fact that no matter what, even if there were other people involved, Tim McVeigh was there and actually did drive that truck up there. Did the fact that Timothy McVeigh has made confessions in other media, did that play into this judge's ruling at all?

COSSACK: That's hard to say, Leon. You know, it's not supposed to. It's only supposed to be what's in the record that's before Judge Matsch. It's not what he, what Timothy McVeigh has said outside the courtroom. But look, you know, Judge Matsch is like everyone else. You know, he reads the newspaper. He watches CNN. He knows what's going on. I just think that his decision was based upon pretty much the fact that he realized that if McVeigh's lawyers were hoping that they would be able to come up with some evidence that was going to show that his sentence should be mitigated, that it was just about going to be an impossibility.

HARRIS: Yeah. So now those of us on the outside are sitting out here and trying to figure out what the McVeigh team is going to do next. Let me ask you about a comment that was made by a former member of his legal team, Jeralyn Merritt. I don't know if you saw the report we had a few moments ago. But she said she thinks that the team may actually have a better chance at the Supreme Court level because the Supreme Court may actually be more open to looking at that particular -- what do you think about that?

COSSACK: Well, they certainly can't have a worse chance. I mean they've lost already in front of Judge Matsch and it's going to be very difficult. I would, you know, I would be shocked if the 10th Circuit disturbs Judge Matsch's rulings. But, you know, my track record on this isn't so good. But I'm in pretty good company. Of course, I was in good company with the other one, too, but I'd be very surprised if the 10th Circuit disturbs this ruling.

Now, what she's referring to is that it would take one judge, Justice Breyer, who has jurisdiction for that area, to stay the execution for a few days pending an entire vote of the Supreme Court as to whether or not to hear the appeal. You need five votes to hear the appeal. I think it would be very difficult to get five votes, but I suppose it's possible for Justice Breyer to, if he wanted to, delay this for a day or two.

I think it's just, it's a, as the lawyer said, it's a real uphill battle at this stage of the game.

HARRIS: Yeah. And as we have learned, if there's any time left over, there is probably room for a surprise or two.

COSSACK: You bet.

HARRIS: We'll see how things turn out. Thanks much, Roger Cossack. Folks, if you want to check out our Web site, you can get some more extensive coverage of the McVeigh execution and the legal efforts to halt it. Our address is CNN.com, AOL keyword is CNN.

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