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American Morning
McVeigh Execution Looms
Aired June 08, 2001 - 10:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And in the case of Timothy McVeigh, the questions fade and his execution looms. The Oklahoma City bomber drops his legal appeals and appears to be resigned to his Monday date with death. We begin this hour with that case of Tim McVeigh as he moved closer to his execution both in terms of time and place. As early as this morning, prison officials in Terra Haute, Indiana will move him to a cell near the death chamber.
Our Jeff Flock is on the grounds of the federal penitentiary in Terre Haute. He's been there for a while. He joins us now live with the latest -- Jeff?
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Leon, no word yet from Bureau of Prisons officials on whether or not that move has been made. The window is now open, though. It began at 72 hours and they must complete that transfer by the 24 hour to go mark. And all, of course, that is all set for here in the Bureau of Prisons execution protocol. It's a long document, about 56 pages, and that sort of sets out the order of events into how this will all play out.
Now, where is Tim McVeigh now and where is he headed? Well, let's take a look at a piece of videotape provided to us by the Bureau of Prisons. That depicts the special confinement unit. That is a federal death row, consolidated here in Terre Haute about five or six years ago at this penitentiary. It provides space for up to 50 men on death row, and I do say men because it is a male unit.
Now, about 20, now exactly 20 people there, McVeigh one of them. There's a, you know, common dining room there. There is even outside recreation facilities provided in cages on federal death row. But soon, as you report, McVeigh will make that trip to what we call the death house, some call the death house. They call it the execution facility. It is a brick windowless building here located on the west side of this 33 acre prison campus. Inside that, there is a holding cell which will be McVeigh's last cell. It is adjacent to the execution chamber itself and inside that chamber there is a brown padded gurney. That is the one that Mr. McVeigh will be strapped to on Monday morning.
It has also on three sides of that ceramic, green ceramic tiled room, glass panels and that is where the various witnesses will sit. One of those panels is a tinted one. That is where the victims and the family members of the victims will sit behind a tinted window, that providing some privacy for them. They will be able to see out to the execution, but Mr. McVeigh and others in the chamber will not be able to see in.
So that is the lay of the land here in Terra Haute, Indiana, all systems now moving forward without any prospect of any further stays, or at least the pursuit of any by Mr. McVeigh, and we're all on schedule for 7:00 A.M. local time, that is 8:00 A.M. Eastern Time Monday morning.
But much more to come over the next several days. Leon, that's the latest from here in Terre Haute outside the prison grounds. Back to you.
HARRIS: All right, thanks, Jeff. We'll be checking back with you throughout the day -- Donna?
DONNA KELLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now let's get some legal perspective on McVeigh's abandoned challenges. CNN's legal analyst Roger Cossack joins us with more from Washington. Roger, do you think at this point if Timothy McVeigh changed his mind that there would be any recourse provided, that they still had time?
ROGER COSSACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I suppose they have time. I think it's not, nothing is going to happen, Donna. It's, you know, he has given up his appeal. There's no indication that he's going to go forward with it. Time, yes, they could get to the Supreme Court but it's really a pretty hopeless case.
KELLEY: Let's, we have a couple of comments from some of his attorneys that we want to listen to and talk to you about. The first one is talking about the legal options.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT NIGH, MCVEIGH ATTORNEY: I think that most of you know that we have urged him at every turn to keep pursuing his legal options even, perhaps, when he did not want us to do so. But he would consent and let us press on. He has reached the point that he wants us to press no further and we have to respect that decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: Roger, once your client says no thanks, I mean you pretty well are stopped down. Or can an attorney press this forward even if the client doesn't want you to?
COSSACK: Well, that's a -- it's a very good question and it's a question that troubles lawyers. I think in this particular instance when you have a client that says I do not wish you to do any more work for me and, in fact, if it got right down to it, could fire his attorney, I think you have to respect the wishes of the client in this situation and most of the time in all situations.
There are situations in which there is such a conflict between lawyers and clients that the lawyer would have to quit. But I think in this situation when McVeigh says enough, it's enough.
KELLEY: Another comment from the attorney. Let's listen to why they think that the court came up with this decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIGH: The decision from the 10th Circuit was beyond words for us in terms of disappointment. We believe that Mr. McVeigh has raised extremely compelling legal arguments at every turn and at every turn has been rebuffed. We believe that the rule of law has been brushed aside because of the nature of the case and we do believe that what has been created is the Tim McVeigh exception to the rule of law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: Roger, what about that argument? Is there much to that, that it's because of who he is?
COSSACK: Well, if I was his, if I was McVeigh's lawyer and I was saying that, I think I can understand why they would feel that way. The real problem here, Donna, from their viewpoint is they've gone to the judge and said look, all we wanted was a period of time so we could investigate these thousands of pages that the FBI negligently failed to turn over and see whether or not there is any evidence that we can come back to you and perhaps go to another jury as to mitigation of a detain sentence.
In fact, what Judge Matsch said was there's no reason to do that. No matter what you find I am holding that a jury would never, ever mitigate Tim McVeigh's death sentence just based upon the facts we know.
That is somewhat unusual in the sense that normally in a situation like this the request for an extra period of time based on the negligence of the other side, at least I thought, would be granted. I see why Judge Matsch came to the decision that he did. It's clear that McVeigh's lawyers are very disappointed and feel that he is being given an unfair hearing or not a hearing based upon the severity and the enormity of what he did. But one can certainly understand why Judge Matsch came to that decision.
The facts are that McVeigh drove that truck right up to the Murrah building, put the bomb in there and exploded the bomb and killed those hundreds of people and I believe that Judge Matsch just felt that no matter what new evidence came up, those facts were never going to be contradicted.
KELLEY: And talking about that, another comment from the attorney about, that runs along the same lines. Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BURR, MCVEIGH ATTORNEY: Every decision along the way in this case since just before trial has been driven by the magnitude of the crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: What about that, Roger? Was it because the crime was so horrific?
COSSACK: I think it would be foolish to say that when you have a crime of this magnitude and this horror that it doesn't stick in people's minds. You know, judges and juries are humans just like everyone else and the notion of someone who committed such a terrible, horrible crime has to play some role.
Now, we ask juries to put this out of their mind when they decide the facts. We ask judges to rule not by prejudice or passion, but by what they believe the appropriate ruling is. I can't tell you whether or not the horror of what McVeigh did played any part in the decision of Judge Matsch, but I would tell you that certainly Judge Matsch knows what McVeigh did, as well did that jury.
KELLEY: And, of course, they're unhappy with the FBI and the mistake that was made with the documents. Here's a comment on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIGH: The message that he believes that this sends is that the FBI can withhold evidence that the court has ordered it to turn over. It can withhold such evidence for a period of six years. When a prosecutor has the good faith to turn it over to the defense three weeks prior to an execution, the FBI completely escapes liability or accountability for that and simply is not held to answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: Of course, Roger, the FBI has said, you know, this could have been partially a clerical order and because of all the paperwork that was involved and things didn't get transferred over and just because of the magnitude of all the paperwork. What about that? If they needed more time, in your opinion, should they have gotten it?
COSSACK: Well, Donna, I believed they were going to get more time and I believed that the judge was going to give them at least another 30 or 60 days just based on the fact that the FBI didn't turn over the material they should have and because of the fact that we're talking about a death penalty here. If they would have given him more time it isn't like he would have been out on bail walking along the street with the rest of us. He'd have been staying right there in that prison. But Judge Matsch felt differently.
Now, let me just say this. I think that what happened with the FBI in this case and what we have seen recently with the FBI is disturbing. And I hope, in fact, speaking as an individual, that there is some oversight over what is happening with the FBI. The notion that these 4,000 pages were not turned over in a case of this magnitude is disturbing. It should be disturbing to, I think, everyone who is interested in the fair administration of justice.
So does there have to be some changes? Whether there were clerical errors or bad computer or whatever reason that you want to give, there has to be some changes. And we on "BURDEN OF PROOF" have had several people from Congress on our show who has indicated that they are more than willing to start to look into the FBI with some oversight and try and change things there.
KELLEY: Well, and, of course, Judge Matsch used the word "shocking" but he said it doesn't change the outcome, it doesn't change what happens and what the deal is for McVeigh. Do you think that the attorneys had a pretty good indication of the way the Supreme Court would have ruled if they would have gotten the case and that was a factor in dropping out?
COSSACK: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, once Judge Matsch made his decision and, again, whether you think it was the right decision or the wrong decision not to extend more time, it was Judge Matsch's decision to make. And unless you could find a court that said that he abused his discretion or somehow relied upon the wrong law, you are not going to get that decision overturned. And I think that it's clear -- I mean I know this and I think it's clear that the lawyers who are representing McVeigh know this and they knew they had an uphill battle with the 10th Circuit and we see how quickly the 10th Circuit dismissed their claim and they, I think they had very little reason to believe they would be successful before the United States Supreme Court.
KELLEY: Our legal analyst, Roger Cossack. We'll see you in a couple of hours on BURDEN OF PROOF. Thanks.
COSSACK: Sure.
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