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American Morning

Authors of "American Terrorist" Discuss McVeigh Execution

Aired June 12, 2001 - 09:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The Oklahoma City Bombing Memorial was a gathering place during Timothy McVeigh's execution yesterday. Survivors and family members of bombing victims met there. They sought closure and some say they actually got it. Others, though, say that they never will.

If Timothy McVeigh had an accomplice in bombing the Federal Building in Oklahoma, other than convicted conspirator Terry Nichols, most Americans think that he died keeping that secret.

A CNN "USA TODAY" Gallup Poll taken over the weekend before McVeigh's execution found 65 percent said McVeigh did not reveal the names of all of those who helped him carry out that deadly blast. Just 23 percent said they believe he did.

Well, joining us now are two people who may have an ongoing interest about McVeigh, although McVeigh is no longer here. They are co-authors of the book, "American Terrorist: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing." Lou Michel and Dan Herbeck are also both staff reporters for "The Buffalo News." They join us from Terre Haute, Indiana, where McVeigh was executed.

Good morning, guys. Thanks for coming out and talking with us and spending some more time on this subject.

Dan, I want to get to you in just a second, but, Lou, I understand that two things of note with you: number one, you actually witnessed the execution and two, I understand you spoke with Timothy McVeigh's dad yesterday, correct?

LOU MICHEL, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN TERRORIST": I spoke with Bill McVeigh late last night and I asked him if he -- how he felt about the federal government? And he said that he doesn't have any hard feelings toward the government. He said the government had to -- did what it had to do.

And I also asked him how he felt the reports that his son received last rites in the Catholic Church? And he said that Tim had basically walked away from religion in the last several years but that he was glad to hear that his son had taken last rites and maybe religion had hit him in those last few hours.

HARRIS: I want to ask you about that because that struck me as rather odd. Here, a man who did not, in fact would not, admit that he did something wrong here, would not apologize for it and yet and still on his last moment there he actually asked for the last rites. That's seems to be a bit contradictory, doesn't it?

MICHEL: On the surface it does. He also met with a minister chaplain as well -- a Protestant chaplain, who prayed with him. And I asked the chaplain: What did Tim McVeigh say after you prayed for him? And he said that McVeigh said thank you.

McVeigh is -- was a very open-minded individual, kind of eclectic. He would borrow from this and borrow from that. He never closed the door on God. You know there's a philosophical thing in religion that God judges us by our own lights, and McVeigh truly believed what he was doing was right in his mind, though it was an atrocity.

HARRIS: Dan, let me ask you about the way things all played out yesterday. I mean considering the -- how in-depth coverage -- the in- depth coverage played out on almost every network, we saw everything pretty much go according to schedule. Did anything at all surprise you yesterday in the way things happened?

DAN HERBECK, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN TERRORIST": It didn't really surprise us because from everything we knew about McVeigh from talking to him for over 75 hours from our book, we thought that he would go very silently in the execution chamber. And I know a lot of people, especially in Oklahoma City, they had good reason to fear that he was going to say something horrible in there, and I'm very thankful that he didn't. He just decided to go out very quietly and kind of in his mind, like a soldier.

HARRIS: Yes, in actuality, he did go out without saying anything, although he did leave behind those written words that we read so much yesterday from that poem "Invictus." Any insight you can give us about why he chose that particular phrase?

HERBECK: Well, that poem was Timothy McVeigh telling the world that he marches to his own drummer and that he did what he did at Oklahoma City because he thought it was right. And I know that's very hard for people to comprehend, but in his mind, the bombing was the right thing to do. And I'm sure he took that to his last moments.

HARRIS: Yes. Let -- well did -- Lou, let me ask you about that. Do you think that there are any secrets then about that bombing that died with him? We had -- we just had that question as part of a Gallup Poll that we ran just moments ago. What do you think about that?

MICHEL: Leon, I truly don't. McVeigh, in one of his final letters to us, said look at all of the steps that I laid out for you. And we not only looked at his steps, we looked at the $82 million investigation conducted by the FBI -- the most thorough, the biggest investigation in law enforcement history. We matched them up, interviews with other people, and McVeigh asked in his words: "Where does the mysterious Mr. X fit in there?" However, Americans love conspiracy theories and it should be further investigated so that there are no questions, but I think the facts are laid out in our book.

And we'd ask people who read it to ask themselves afterwards, where is John Doe 2, 3, 4 or 5, 200?

HARRIS: On that, conspiracy thinking is the kind of thinking that fed his mind. Take us inside his mind, once again, Dan, if you can. Now he said that -- Timothy McVeigh -- that he did not want -- he didn't care if the execution was broadcast or whatever, but he didn't want to do anything that would make this, I guess, glorify his position anymore than it already has been. He didn't want to turn himself into a martyr. At least those are some of the quotes that I've heard attributed to him. Did he really not want his, I guess, I hate to use the word legacy, did he really not want one after all of this? It's hard to believe that he would go that far and then say he didn't want one.

HERBECK: Well, there's no doubt in my mind that Tim McVeigh wants to be remembered by history. And one of the people that he considered a hero was John Brown, the man who in the 1800s committed some very, very violent acts while trying to end slavery in the United States. And I think McVeigh looks at himself as a John Brown figure for our age. And, you know, he -- that comes as no solace to all the people in Oklahoma City who lost their loved ones, but in McVeigh's mind, the people who died were, as he said, "collateral damage of his one-man war against the U.S. government."

HARRIS: Dan Herbeck and Lou Michel of the "Buffalo News" and authors of "American Terrorist." We thank you much for your time and for your insights today. And congratulations, great effort on the book. Good luck to you gentlemen down the road. Take care.

HERBECK: Thank you.

MICHEL: Thank you.

HARRIS: And Dan Herbeck is going to be available for an online chat right here, noon Eastern, on CNN.com.

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