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American Morning

'Newsweek' Reporter Discusses British Case of Two Child Killers Who May Be Released From Prison

Aired June 22, 2001 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Two of Britain's most notorious killers are gaining their freedom, after serving more than eight years for their crimes. The two 18-year-old boys were 10 years old when they tortured and killed two-year-old James Bulger. Today the government announced its decision to release the teens and give them new identities.

CNN's Margaret Lowrie has more on this case that continues to stir passions in Britain and all around the world eight years after the murder.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARGARET LOWRIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Captured on surveillance video, pictures that horrified a nation. Two school boys luring two-year-old Jamie Bulger away from his mother at the Liverpool shopping mall. Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, just 10 years old themselves in 1993, they were children killing children, brutally. They tried to drown Jamie Bulger then beat him to death with rocks and bricks and an iron rod, leaving his body to be cut in half by a train.

The trial judge called it "unparalleled evil" and barbarity and gave them an indefinite sentence. British Parliament member Michael Howard was then home secretary. He imposed a 15 year minimum on the amount of time they should spend behind bars.

MICHAEL HOWARD, FORMER BRITISH HOME SECRETARY: If a murder of this kind, this terrible kind, had been committed by adults, they would have served, in my view, at least 25 years in prison. Now, obviously you have to make an allowance for the fact that those who committed this particular murder were young and that was the sort of consideration that led me to the view that 15 years was the appropriate time.

LOWRIE: The public, outraged by the crime, supported him. But a few years later, the European Court of Human Rights ruled he had over stepped his remit. That cleared the way last fall for a senior British judge to, in effect, rule the boys should be released at 18. Subsequently, another judge ruled they should be given new identities upon their release to protect them.

Jamie Bulger's parents, how divorced, challenged both decisions unsuccessfully. A spokesman for Jamie's mother Denise. NORMAN BRENNAN, VICTIMS OF CRIME TRUST: Despite what the government says, the views of the victims appear to count for nothing. If there is any such thing as a living hell, I and my family live it daily. I will continue to fight on for justice for James. That's all I've ever wanted.

LOWRIE: But some say the fact the boys were so young when they killed bodes well for their rehabilitation.

CAROLINE HAMILTON, CHILDREN'S LEGAL CENTRE: There's a huge difference between a child of 10 and a child of 18 and the views taken in the U.N. Convention On the Rights of the Child and in the U.N. minimum standards and norms on juvenile justice. The children should be kept in custody for the shortest possible time. The idea behind it is that children, perhaps unlike adults, can really change during that time in custody.

LOWRIE: These young men, she says, likely have received a lot of help to make that happen.

HAMILTON: They've received good psychiatric help. We know that they received education. And I presume the parole board and all those who are dealing with them would not allow these children to go back into the community unless they thought that they presented no further risk.

LOWRIE: Others say there needs to be more balance between rehabilitation and punishment.

(on camera): Given the enormity of the crime these two committed, do you think they should be freed?

HOWARD: Not at this stage. I think this is too soon. I don't think that they have spent enough time in custody to reflect the particular horror of the circumstances of this crime.

LOWRIE: Whether or not justice has been served in this case will be, to some, inevitably, an emotional rather than a legal issue. But whatever happens next to Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, their futures will unfold away from the public eye, ultimately relocated and given new identities, their very names consigned to the past, along with the murder of Jamie Bulger.

Margaret Lowrie, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: For more on this story, we're joined from London, to talk about this decision, by "Newsweek"'s Stryker McGuire. He is London bureau chief for the magazine.

Stryker, hello -- thanks for joining us.

STRYKER MCGUIRE, "NEWSWEEK": Thank you very much.

KAGAN: A number of aspects to this case that are so different than how it would have been handled here in the United States. First of all, this order of protection for the two boys who brutally killed this other little boy. How do you explain that?

MCGUIRE: The laws here are different, just as they differ from country to country, and I think that, as your report pointed out, there is the emotional side of this dispute and the legal side of this dispute. This is going to be a very wrenching issue here, if, in fact, next week, the two boys who are now men -- young men, but they are men -- are released, which is what seems to be expected.

KAGAN: Part of this order of protection goes out to the media. Again, something you wouldn't see in the United States, with the order to newspapers Do not track down these young men, do not take their pictures, and do not print those pictures. Do you think that will be effective? What's the punishment if a newspaper did do that?

MCGUIRE: That's a very, very good question, because the media environment here is, shall we say, a little feistier than it is in the United States. In the United States, you do have court orders that will protect the identity, for example, of juveniles or...

KAGAN: But not an 18-year-old. You wouldn't have an 18-year-old being released and an order to say to a newspaper or a news organization Do not print this person's picture?

MCGUIRE: No, but you do have, in America, rape victims, for example, are not identified in most cases.

KAGAN: Sure, we can get into a discussion, but that's victim versus criminal here. What I'm wondering is I know this has been in place in other cases in the past in Britain, yet now we have the Internet. It's one thing to tell a bunch of newspapers you can't do it, but how do you control what would be put on the Internet?

MCGUIRE: Not only do you have the Internet, which is one thing, but the tabloids here operate on an entirely different level than most of us who are used to American journalism expect. And already there's talk of a lot of money floating around out there about information about the two, when they are released. There have been recent photographs of at least one of the two floating around on the Internet.

It's a very dicey area, and it's also a little bit scary, because you then have to begin to question the ability of a court to really control what happens. But again, I want go back to the fact the tabloids here operate by very, very different rules, and there will be a lot of money on the table for information about these two young men, if they are released.

KAGAN: So much focus on those young men today, of course, because the decision involves them, but what about the victim's family. What about the Bulger family? Do you expect to hear from them?

MCGUIRE: They have -- the mother in particular -- been quite vocal on this issue, and needless to say, what she would like to see is the two perpetrators of this pretty horrific crime stay in jail a lot longer. I mean, in America, I think, probably, the question would be whether there would be a death penalty or not. Here, that's not an issue, but the mother is saying that she thinks they should stay in prison for 15 or 20 more years.

One of the interesting things about the ruling, which may free the two young men, is that the judge felt that keeping them in prison was worse than letting them be outside. He talked about the corrosive atmosphere of an adult prison, and so there again, you have yet another issue that has to be discussed.

KAGAN: And finally, one other comparison to the United States, another avenue of justice, so to speak, for American families, would be to file a civil suit against these boys and their families. Is there that kind of avenue in Britain?

MCGUIRE: Well, there is, it's not going to yield very much at this point. What you do have here is there may be some sort of appeal that could be filed to the European courts, but that was a route that was already taken by lawyers on behalf of the boys who were convicted of the crime.

KAGAN: We will continue to watch it. Stryker McGuire with "Newsweek" magazine, thanks for your insight on the case -- appreciate it.

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