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American Morning

Former National Security Adviser Samuel Berger on Defiant Milosevic

Aired July 03, 2001 - 10:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And now we're going to turn to some dramatic world news, as several hours ago former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic made his first appearance before the U.N. War Crimes Tribunal. But rather than meekly listening to the litany of charges against him, the scowling Milosevic berated the proceedings and refused to enter a plea.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour joining us from the Hague with more. As I understand it, Christiane, the proceedings went on whether Mr. Milosevic wanted legal representation or not.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This was really just a routine, what they call initial court appearance for Mr. Milosevic. He was meant just to have the indictment read out to him, asked whether he understands it and then offered the opportunity to enter his plea. Instead, Mr. Milosevic chose this moment to make his political point, to make an opening statement. Some observers say he behaved quite astutely and shrewdly, from his point of view, because he did get the opportunity to say like he thought it was.

First of all, he doesn't recognize the court's jurisdiction. He says his extradition was illegal. He says that this is just a political circus, he said, in order to try to hide what he claims are NATO war crimes in the former Yugoslavia.

In any event he said that he would not appoint a legal counsel to what he considered an illegal organ and then it was the presiding judge who asked him did he or did he not wish to hear the indictment read against him?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD MAY, PRESIDING JUDGE: As you may know, you have the right to have the indictment read out loud in court before you plead to it. This is a right which you may also waive. Now, do you want to have the indictment read out or not?

SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC, WAR CRIMES DEFENDANT: That's your problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So Milosevic gruffly brushing off the presiding judge, who did proceed with his line of questioning. When it became clear that Mr. Milosevic was not going to cooperate, the judge as the tribunal allows, entered a plea of not guilty on his behalf for all the counts with which he's indicted. He's indicted on, among other things, charges of crimes against humanity, specifically for allegations such as deportation, murder and persecution, all relating to the Kosovo war and all related to charges against the -- against him for actions that he is accused of taking against civilians in Kosovo, ethnic Albanian civilians in Kosovo -- Daryn?

KAGAN: And Christiane, as he's being held what kind of conditions is he being held in, Mr. Milosevic?

AMANPOUR: Well, similar to any other indictee who comes here. They have a room, a cell, if you like. They spend 12 hours locked down, 12 hours able to mingle. He's got a bed, a desk, a coffee machine, access to satellite television, all the Yugoslav television stations. But significantly, all the indictees are kept under a period of isolation for a certain time while they're given an assessment. His has now been extended. They won't tell us specifically why but he's obviously a high security case. He's a high profile case and he's still in isolation.

KAGAN: Christiane Amanpour at the Hague. Christiane, thank you -- Brian?

BRIAN NELSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Court proceedings against Milosevic will play out on the world stage, but nowhere will the attention be rooted more deeply than in the hastily tilled earth of the region's mass graves. CNN's Nic Robertson is at one such site in Racak, Kosovo, where Yugoslav security forces are blamed for the massacre of 45 people. That event some two and a half years ago helped trigger the NATO air strikes -- Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Brian.

The killing of 45 people here in the village of Racak happened before the NATO air campaign got underway. There was an international observation mission here at that time and the senior U.S. diplomat who was heading that observation mission came to the village of Racak after the killings. What he saw, all the deaths, he called it a massacre.

I'm standing now in the grave site where all those people were buried. They were buried quite, a few weeks after, after the Yugoslav authorities were able to carry out autopsies. But that gave the hint that many people here in this village felt that it was a cover-up, the fact that the Yugoslav authorities performed the autopsies, they felt, was not fair and not reasonable.

Within a few weeks of the killings in Racak the international community began to focus, along with the ethnic Albanian politicians, they began to focus efforts to draw the fighting, the level of conflict in Kosovo, to draw it down. Of course, that failed. A NATO air campaign began. Many other places in Kosovo, places like Velika Krusa, Bela Crkva, Pec, Prizren, Djakovica, all became sites of other killings like this, again, like Racak, all listed on that indictment against the former President Slobodan -- former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic.

And many of the people that we've talked to here in Racak today are very pleased, they say, to see Mr. Milosevic there in the Hague facing trial. They say, however, that they feel many other people are responsible for the deaths here and in other places in Kosovo. They say soldiers, Yugoslav Serbian policemen they say are responsible. Senior ranking politicians they say are responsible. They would like, they say, to see more people in the dock with Mr. Milosevic.

They also say that they really feel that the maximum penalty that he can receive, a custodial sentence, they say for all the killings he caused, and many of their relatives here in this village lie in this grave, in these graves here, they say that a custodial sentence for Mr. Milosevic is not enough. Many people here, Brian, would like to see the death penalty be applicable for the crimes that people here feel were committed in Kosovo.

NELSON: Nic, do the people in the area speak with any confidence, any assurance or any certainty that Mr. Milosevic will be found guilty for the crimes for which he has been charged? And is there some fear that he might escape what they would perceive as to be rightful justice?

ROBERTSON: Well, I think the first part of the answer is people here feel so much that Mr. Milosevic is already guilty. What they tell us today is that the very fact that his is now appearing in front of the world being faced with these charges will, they say, reveal to the rest of the world what they claim they already know, that he is guilty. They feel that he's guilty and they feel that this trial will set out and will show that he is guilty. There is not a sense here that he will escape justice because they feel that he is in the right place now to receive that justice. However, as I say, they do feel that the level of justice, the retribution, if you will, that they would like to see for their losses that have been inflicted on them, they don't feel that the court can go far enough in this particular case.

NELSON: All right, thank you. CNN's Nic Robertson reporting to us live this morning from Racak in Kosovo. That's where Yugoslav security forces are blamed for the massacre of 45 people.

Now for some diplomatic perspective, our first guest helped guide the Clinton administration's international policy during the affairs in Kosovo. Samuel Berger is the former national security adviser for former President Clinton. He joins us now from Washington. Mr. Berger, thank you for being with us this morning.

SAMUEL BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It's good to be here, Brian.

NELSON: Mr. Berger, as you saw Mr. Milosevic before the War Crimes Tribunal this morning being arraigned, I would like to know what you were thinking. What were you feelings at the time?

BERGER: Well, despite the apparent diffidence of Mr. Milosevic, this is an extraordinarily dramatic moment for the international community. This is a man who over a decade conducted war against civilians to perpetuate his own power, four wars to be exact, in Croatia, in Slovenia, in Bosnia, in Kosovo. Two hundred thousand people killed in Bosnia. About a million expelled in Kosovo. Thousands killed. You just had Nic on from Racak. Let me give you one other example to make this real.

On March 25, 1999, Yugoslav troops marched into a village called Bela Crkva in Kosovo, randomly lined up 65 men, asked them to strip, robbed them and then mowed down and killed them. These were not the tragic consequences of war. This was the calculated purpose of Mr. Milosevic's war and the fact that he is now being held accountable for those acts before an international court, I think, is a dramatic statement on the part of the international community.

NELSON: Notwithstanding the atrocities you just mentioned and which are well known, there is some concern that there is no exact paper trail leading from those atrocities in the field right to Mr. Milosevic himself and so putting a case together is going to be extraordinarily difficult despite what appears as overwhelming evidence of Mr. Milosevic's guilt. Are you concerned at all?

BERGER: Well, he's entitled to a fair trial and this is a tribunal that has acquitted people that have been tried before it and they have an obligation to prove their case. I don't have much question that will be true by virtue of eyewitnesses, by virtue of what we know he said, by virtue of others who may testify against him and by virtue of the documents that I believe the government of Serbia ultimately will provide to the War Crimes Tribunal. It's not going to be an easy case as a lawyer to prove in a court of law but I believe that there is an overwhelming case here.

NELSON: As you saw this morning, Mr. Milosevic is quite defiant. He has received to acknowledge the validity of the court. He plans, or at least this morning, anyway, he defended himself or represented himself. Is this a wise tactic for the former Yugoslav president to be engaging in at this point in time?

BERGER: Well, it's a typical, typical of Milosevic. It's an arrogant, defiant statement against the world. It's a denial of reality, all of which we've seen over the last 10 years. But it also is a great statement by the Serbian government and the Serbian people that they have done this. It's obviously controversial in Serbia. But they have decided to turn this man over to the international community, the War Crimes Tribunal, to put the past in the dock of justice and to move on and join the international community, rejoin the mainstream of Europe and in that sense I think over the long term this is quite an extraordinary development.

NELSON: All right, former national security adviser Samuel Berger, thanks for being with us this morning. We appreciate your insights a lot.

BERGER: My pleasure.

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