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American Morning
China's Olympic Bid Stirs Controversy
Aired July 12, 2001 - 10:26 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Of all the Olympic city hopefuls, China's capital is expected to get the nod from the IOC tomorrow. But opponents say that Beijing's human rights record should take the city out of the running.
Joining us to discuss Beijing and its bid are two congressmen, Republican James Leach of Iowa and Democrat Tom Lantos of California. They are in Washington. Also joining us, our CNN senior Asia correspondent Mike Chinoy. He is live from Beijing. Gentlemen, welcome to all of you.
Congressman Lantos, I'm going to go ahead and start with you. How can you deny an Olympic game's bid to the most populous nation in the world?
REP. TOM LANTOS (D), CALIFORNIA: Because it has the most abominable human rights record in the world. We hear a great deal that China has 1.3 billion people, but there is not one single political dissident in China who is free. They are all in prison or they are in exile. It would be an outrage if this game, dedicated to the free spirit of human beings, to human dignity, would be in a location where religion is persecuted, religious believers are tortured and killed, where there is zero political freedom, zero press freedom and the Chinese communist regime would bask in the reflected glory of the pageantry.
We have had this before. Hitler had the Olympics in 1936 and then came the holocaust. The Soviet Union had it in 1980 in that was followed by a decade of suppression.
I think we ought to find a place where human beings are free to express their views, not to be terrified by a communist police state.
KAGAN: Congressman Leach, how would you respond to those charges by Congressman Lantos?
REP. JAMES LEACH (R), IOWA: Well, certainly we would all agree that there are human rights abuses in China. Having said that, the question is whether sports should be above politics and whether this would help open China rather than close it? We have found in history that all efforts to isolate China have basically failed. Those efforts to open it up make it a better society. And for the life of me, when we look at historical analogies, for example, 1936, it was Jesse Owens with five gold, four gold medals that drove a stake into the heart of Aryan supremacy theories. I think sport is good, sport should be above politics and that we, whether we like all of China's government policies, ought to identify with the Chinese culture and the Chinese people who want to hold these Olympics, who have done awfully well in Olympic games in recent Olympiads and that we should not rule them out.
KAGAN: Mike, let's get you in here from Beijing. Do you know that if Chinese Olympic officials, in making their bid, in putting together their presentation, did they address the charges of human rights abuses that are coming from around the world as a knock on why China should not get the Olympic games?
MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Chinese officials in Moscow are reported to be hinting that if the Olympics are given to Beijing, that it would produce some gradual improvement in human rights. Of course, that remains to be seen. But one of the interesting things I've noticed in Beijing in the last few days talking to a lot of people here is that while China has very little political freedom, there is a remarkable amount of what one might call personal liberty.
I spent some time the other day with several artists who are not communist party members, who paint satirical portraits of Chairman Mao Tse-tung in their studios. We've been to night spots and talked to young people. These are not supporters of the communist party. But they are invariably in favor of the Olympics. And their argument -- and I'm interested to hear what both members of Congress have to say to this -- their argument is, in a sense, that even if this is not going to propel China towards any kind of democracy, that the engagement with the rest of the world will accelerate the broader social openness that may have the seeds of change down the road.
That's what I hear from a lot of young people here. It'd be interested to know what the two congressmen have to say in response to that.
KAGAN: A very good point. Let's bring Congressman Lantos in on that, the point that you've heard not just from young people in China, but also here in the states, that you put the spotlight and you have the interaction with democracies and freer societies, this is only going to benefit the China people.
LANTOS: Well, let me remind Mike Chinoy that there was a great deal of personal freedom in Nazi Germany in 1936. Most people were not under any restriction, but there was only one political party. There was no free press. There was a totalitarian regime. And that is exactly the situation in China today. I am all in favor of China getting the Olympics once they clean up their abominable human rights record. But the Olympics is pageantry. We see it every four years. We saw it in Sydney.
The Chinese will put on, if they get the Olympics, a spectacular show and people across the globe with not overwhelming political sophistication will get a very favorable impression of this dictatorial and suppressive regime. The fact that you have night spots in Beijing, and I was there just a short while ago, has nothing to say about political freedom, press freedom, freedom of religion. We should not reward a police state for suppressing the rights of its people by giving them the Olympics.
KAGAN: And Congressman Leach, let's get you in here one more time. Let's just say for the sake of conversation that Beijing is awarded the Olympics. Do you think there should be some kind of moderation, some kind of watch that happens on Beijing and on China to make sure that this improvement in human rights does take place leading up to 2008?
LEACH: Well, we all hope for an improvement in human rights in China and they desperately need it. On the other hand, we've got to be very careful here. The Olympics do not cause repression. They're unlikely to cause great, much freedom. But they could be a slight positive in this regard.
Now, having said that, culture is far larger than politics. This isn't about a referendum on the Chinese government. This is about a great society with a great culture and why the United States of America, why the Congress should enter into this debate is beyond me. This is something for the Olympic committee to decide. It's something that our teams, if China is chosen, should be honored to go to participate and do the best we can as individuals representing our country. And that is what the Olympics is all about.
And to take human rights and say it is the decisive circumstance at this time on this issue, I think is a very frail read to hang a foreign policy and one in which the American people, I think, ought to be identifying with the China people, not with their government. The China people want these games. We should honor that circumstance and honor those people.
KAGAN: And this...
LANTOS: May I comment? May I comment on that?
KAGAN: Real quickly, Congressman Lantos. We're really short on time.
LANTOS: We voted on this in the Congress in 1993, overwhelmingly opposing the Olympics in China in 2000. This time, the Republican leadership has bottled up a bill which passed the International Relations Committee overwhelmingly on a bipartisan basis. The European Parliament has condemned China and asked that the games not be held in Beijing.
KAGAN: And I'm going to have to have...
LANTOS: The American people feel the same way.
KAGAN: Well, I'm going to have that be the last word. Congressman Lantos, Congressman Leach and Mike Chinoy in Beijing, gentlemen, thank you for helping us with our conversation. Of course, the anticipation will end tomorrow when the International Olympic Committee does make its decision. Join us here on CNN for a special 10:00 A.M. Eastern, 7:00 A.M. Pacific while we watch the selection be announced.
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