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American Morning

Reaction to President Bush's Announcement

Aired August 10, 2001 - 09:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get started right away with the announcement last night from President Bush. We're going to have reaction to the president's compromise on that controversial issue. President Bush has decided to allow federal funding of limited embryonic stem cell research. Funding will be allowed only for research on stem cells already extracted from human embryos.

Mr. Bush says there are about 60 sets or lines of embryonic stem cells where, in his words, the life and death decision has already been made.

We're going to have an extensive live coverage for you. Our CNN Congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl is on Capitol Hill with reaction from opponents and advocates. White House correspondent Kelly Wallace is in Crawford, Texas with more details on the president's decision. And medical correspondent Rea Blakey will join us from a fertility clinic where frozen embryos are being stored.

We start this morning with Jonathan Karl -- Jonathan, good morning.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well, the president's decision came as members of his own party had been debating this issue, deeply divided about whether or not there should be any federal funding of stem cell research. Now, the Republicans on both sides of the debate are giving the president high marks for being deliberative and thoughtful in his decision, but both sides, as we saw in a debate on CNN just within the last hour, found something to criticize in the president's decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CONNIE MORELLA (R), MARYLAND: The feeling is that his statement last night does not go far enough. It is limited. It does not expand the use of the embryos, the early embryos that are very potent, from research, which will continue to provide tremendous breakthroughs.

The private sector is doing that. Other countries are doing that. We need to have strict guidelines and we need to have the federal accountability that would come from the federal funding.

SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: I thought the president last night gave a very thoughtful, very considered speech. He obviously spent a lot of time on this and knows that we're headed now down a road of a series of ethical issues, that we have great promise with the potential we know taking place in stem cells, adult stem cells, embryonic, but that we've got to proceed cautiously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: The White House has worked aggressively to try to limit criticism from those conservatives that didn't want any funding of this research. Ten minutes before the president delivered his speech last night, he did a conference -- Karl Rove, his senior adviser on this issue, did a conference call with five of the leading opponents of any kind of stem cell research or funding for stem cell research to tell them of the president's decision and to also try to tell them that this was the best possible compromise as far as the pro-life or the anti-abortion rights community was concerned.

Democrats, however, have not been so muted in their criticism of the president. Richard Gephardt, the Democratic leader in the House of Representatives, said -- let me find his quote here -- "Once again, the president has done the bare minimum in order to try and publicly posture himself with the majority of Americans. But Americans know that this is not the decision that the science community needed to go forward in full force." That from Richard Gephardt.

A less critical response came from the Democratic Senate leader, Tom Daschle. He praised the president for his deliberative approach, but said that many will be concerned that this does not go far enough and he predicted there will be Senate action on this, Senate action to provide more expansive federal funding when the Congress returns in September -- back to you.

KAGAN: Jonathan, can you tell us a little bit more about what that action might be and how successful it might be?

KARL: Well, in the Senate there is broad support for more expensive embryonic stem cell research, research that would actually provide federal money for the destruction of those embryos beyond just the simple, those 60 stem cell lines that the president talked about. There is a bill, in fact, by Senator Arlen Specter, a Republican, but a moderate Republican who has been very active on this issue. Specter has held hearings in the past on this issue and he has also put out a statement saying that he will push for Senate action on his bill as soon as Congress returns in September.

KAGAN: Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill -- Jon, thank you.

KARL: Sure.

KAGAN: Leon?

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, President Bush wrestled with this issue of embryonic stem cell research for months before making his decision and now the administration is trying to convince critics that it was the right decision to make. CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace is in Crawford, Texas where the president is vacationing. She joins us now live -- good morning, Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Leon.

Well, you can say that the selling of the president's decision is definitely underway, as Jonathan just noted, senior advisers on the phone last night with law makers and interest groups. Today, other senior aides fanning out on all the television talk shows this morning.

Aides say the president made this decision taking into account science, ethics and morality and also based on his heart. As we've reported, the president deciding that only federal tax dollars will go to research on already existing embryonic stem cell lines. And here's a portion of how Mr. Bush explained his decision to the American people last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This allows us to explore the promise and potential of stem cell research without crossing a fundamental moral line by providing taxpayer funding that would sanction or encourage further destruction of human embryos that have at least the potential for life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Now, earlier I had a chance to talk to Karen Hughes, one of the president's top advisers, and I asked her if there happened to be any turning point over the past couple of months that helped the president reach this decision. She said yes, that there was a meeting in early July between the president and two bioethicists and she says this is really where the beginning of what she calls the president's solution emerged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN HUGHES, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: They really discussed all the ethical ramifications of this whole new frontier of embryonic stem cell research. And I remember at that meeting the president asked well, you know, if -- what would be the moral or the ethical implications of proceeding with research on embryos that had already been destroyed and where the life and death decision had already been made?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And in that meeting was Dr. Leon Katz, bioethicist from the University of Chicago. He is somebody the president has appointed to chair his counsel that will oversee this embryonic stem cell research and that will come up with guidelines and regulations. And one final footnote, Leon, very interesting, I asked Karen Hughes if the president made any phone calls on Wednesday after he reached a final decision. She said yes, that he called Dr. Katz and that he also called his secretary of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson, who is one of the biggest supporters of this research -- Leon.

HARRIS: Yes, but Kelly, did she say what they said when they -- when President Bush called them?

WALLACE: She did not say that. We do know that Dr. Katz definitely agreed with the president's decision and was against research on embryos that are currently at fertility clinics and that would have to be destroyed to go forward with the research. So he is definitely in synch with the president's decision.

We don't know what Secretary Thompson said to the president. We do know, Leon, that he was one of the biggest supporters and was somebody who wanted the president to fully go forward and even allow research on those embryos at the fertility clinics that would otherwise be discarded. Not clear what his reaction to the president's decision was when the president called him -- Leon.

HARRIS: Interesting. All right, thanks much, Kelly Wallace in Crawford, Texas this morning. We'll talk with you later on this morning.

Now, President Bush consulted with friends, members of Congress and the clergy, as well as scientists, ethicists and doctors before making his decision.

Dr. John Mendelsohn of the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center at the University of Texas was one of the people the president talked with and he joins us from Houston -- good morning, doctor. How are you?

DR. JOHN MENDELSOHN, M.D. ANDERSON CANCER CENTER: Good morning, Leon. Just fine.

HARRIS: Well, I'm glad you were able to join us this morning because I'm fascinated about what it was like to sit down and talk with Mr. Bush about these topics. Can you give us an idea what the conversations were like?

MENDELSOHN: We talked for about 45 minutes. He led the discussion. He seemed very well versed on the issues and he probed very deeply into the scientific ramifications of the research.

HARRIS: Well, what did you tell him?

MENDELSOHN: I told him that I thought that stem cells from embryos provided tremendous potential for new treatments of some of the most debilitating chronic diseases that are here today and I strongly urged him to find a way in his heart and with his policies to move this research forward with federal funding.

HARRIS: All right, so then how much of the announcement that we heard last night reflected your council with him?

MENDELSOHN: I think President Bush has made an important first step in moving this along. We'll be able to study these stem cell lines that are already in existence. We're going to learn a lot from this. We'll learn whether we need to go back and study the primordial, original stem cells that haven't developed in the lines yet in order to do what we need to do and we'll learn whether we need more of these lines. And of course there will continue to be research going on in the private sector and I think there'll be good interchange between the publicly funded research, which will be the majority now, and the private research.

HARRIS: Let me ask you something else, because it seems -- I'm sure you've watched television this morning and you've picked up a paper or two and you've seen that everyone, it seems, has found something to like and dislike about the stance that Mr. Bush has taken here, seeming to take the middle of the road on this.

How about you? Do you find anything in this that you disagree with or and something you particularly agree with?

MENDELSOHN: I agree with the idea that this is a very complicated issue, as he pointed out, and I think there's a scientific revolution going on in America that the country's adapting to pretty quickly. I mean, we have genes now being put into cells and being put into people. We're going to have stem cells being put into people some time in the next decade. And this is a major change and if it takes a little while to put all this together in policy, that's reasonable.

This is the first step forward. I hope we revisit this situation again and again and continue to open up this type of research even to fresh stem cells eventually.

HARRIS: So you have no disagreement at all with the stance that Mr. Bush has taken?

MENDELSOHN: I think it's a very important first step.

HARRIS: OK, let me ask you, then, about the 60 lines that he mentioned, the 60 stem cell lines. I've been reading about four or five papers this morning and it seems like a lot of people are asking where did he get that number? Did he talk about that with you?

MENDELSOHN: No, we didn't talk about that and I hope he did his homework well. I'm confident he did.

HARRIS: Do you believe there are 60 stem cell lines available and if there are, how many of them do you think are viable?

MENDELSOHN: There may be even more than 60 stem cell lines available. What I don't know is how many of them are accessible to scientists in the public domain and I don't know how many of them have been cultured without contamination and will be useful for what we want to do.

HARRIS: So you don't share the same concern that some doctors and scientists have expressed this morning about that number being too limiting? MENDELSOHN: I think in the long run we're going to find that we'll need more but I think we have to prove that to a big part of the American public and the research we do in the next couple of years with the ground rules that he set will allow us to do that.

HARRIS: Dr. John Mendelsohn, we thank you very much for spending some time with us this morning discussing this first step.

MENDELSOHN: I'm glad to.

HARRIS: We appreciate your time very much. Take care -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Let's go to the front lines now. Our Rea Blakey is at a fertility clinic right now in Rockville, Maryland. She's at a place where embryos are stored and frozen -- Rea, good morning.

REA BLAKEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

In fact, we're just about 10 miles outside of Washington, D.C. at the Shady Grove fertility clinic. With me is Dr. Robert Stillman. We want to check with him very quickly to get his initial reaction because obviously this issue impacts not only himself but his patients and what they're able to do with potentially viable embryos that are here at your clinic.

So your reaction first?

DR. ROBERT STILLMAN, SHADY GROVE FERTILITY CLINIC: The president made a political expedient decision and he had the opportunity to give the scientific community, the starving scientific community and patients a loaf and he gave them a crumb.

BLAKEY: Woo.

STILLMAN: And it may be a stale crumb at that, as the previous interview said. We don't know the viability and the number and accessibility of even those 60 limited stem cells. We needed more.

BLAKEY: All right, but in regards to stem cells that are not in a line yet, that are just individual...

STILLMAN: Correct?

BLAKEY: ... you basically have some 100 embryos here. And let's take a look at the tank so that you can get a feel for how they are stored. Tell us a little bit about what's here.

STILLMAN: This is liquid nitrogen and you see they are stored and labeled. And in here is a potential life, potential life for an infertile couple to transfer to their own uterus, but potential life giving to millions and millions of individuals who have the disorders from which these stem cells, this holy grail for science.

BLAKEY: So let's go ahead and take a picture here. We're trying to get our situation organized here. But just so that you can point out a little bit more, what we're looking at are two blastocysts on this photograph?

STILLMAN: Yes, these are blastocysts and the inner cell mass is the stem cells. These can differentiate into any tissue and that's the key. Adult cells can't do that. Umbilical cells can't do that. Only these stem cells can.

BLAKEY: OK. I don't want to leave this out too long but tell me...

STILLMAN: Neither do I.

BLAKEY: ... what, then, happens for the patients that have provided these embryos and may not necessary want to increase their family? Do they have an option at this point to try and get these embryos to researchers anywhere other than federally funded?

STILLMAN: Well, other than federally funded is the key. The president has cut off an avenue of hope to the couples who have spent their years and tears and toil to provide these embryos to allow them to be used for the greater good. And as of now, the embryos that are here can't be used for that purpose with a appropriate funding. And I think this will put the United States and the science months, if not years, behind before we find out that the 60 stem cell lines currently available or currently in the world do not work well enough.

BLAKEY: And for your patients, this basically means they have five years in which these embryos can be stored? After that, patients have to make a decision one way or the other.

STILLMAN: Yes.

BLAKEY: And at this point science is not necessarily the best option available.

STILLMAN: Right. They could transfer them to their own uterus and that's perfectly wonderful if they wish to do that. They can donate them to another couple, and there are thousands that could be donated. This would not cut off embryo adoption. But there are also thousands that could be used for scientific research...

BLAKEY: For research purposes.

STILLMAN: ... to help millions with their serious diseases.

BLAKEY: All right, Dr. Robert Stillman with the Shady Grove fertility clinic, thank you very much for joining us.

We will be back with a little bit more information. But as you can see, Daryn, this is obviously an issue that affects a great number of people and somewhat cuts off an avenue, if you will, for infertile couples who were able to have some success but obviously don't want to see it just disappear.

KAGAN: Rea, real quickly, can you just ask the doctor -- I don't know if the doctor will be able to hear me -- what's the option that most of his patients pick at this point when they decide that they're done and they've completed their families?

BLAKEY: Daryn is asking which option most of the patients seem to take when they're done with their families and the five years expire?

STILLMAN: Oh, we hear each and every day as this debate has increased, each and every day couples thrilled with the idea that they could use these for stem cell research. That's what they really want to do, the large, large majority. And now they are devastated.

BLAKEY: Well, not available at this point -- Daryn, back to you.

KAGAN: All right, Rea Blakey, thank you very much, and thanks to the doctor, as well.

For more specifics on stem cell research, you can log onto our Web site, an interactive explanation of how the embryonic cells are harvested. The address is cnn.com/stemcell, AOL keyword: CNN.

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