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American Morning

Gay Couples Fight for Rights in Massachusetts

Aired August 14, 2001 - 09:18   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: In Massachusetts, same-sex couples are fighting for a change in the law. There are a growing number of gay and lesbian families but state law does not allow them to get married. And that issue is now the focus of a debate. A lawsuit pushing to allow gay marriages and a bill to ban them are both at the center of this debate.

And our Boston bureau chief Bill Delaney has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sort of thing anyone in charge of a 5-year-old knows all about.

JULIE GOODRIDGE, MOTHER: Annie, don't be kooky. Give me your checker, please.

DELANEY: How kooky 5-year-olds can be. Just one reason Julie and Hillary Goodrich, the two women raising Annie, say they're as much parents as any traditional heterosexual couple.

GOODRIDGE: I don't think that there is any difference.

DELANEY: Because, though, there still is a difference legally, Julie and Hillary this spring joined a lawsuit in Massachusetts to legalize gay and lesbian marriage for the first time in any state, for the right to family leave, to share a pension, health insurance, making Massachusetts now ground zero for opponents of gay marriage, who are around the country closely watching a bill pending in the Massachusetts legislature to ban same sex marriage as well as a recently filed proposal for an amendment to the state constitution that also would make such unions illegal.

BRYAN RUDNICK, MASSACHUSETTS CITIZEN'S ALLIANCE: Well, we're not here to bash committed long-term relationships. What we're saying is marriage is a unique and special institution and our children need to be raised by a mother and a father. Common sense, history, science all prove that children need a mother and a father during their developmental stages.

DELANEY: What children need, say same sex couples, family, period.

GOODRIDGE: We both have a legal relationship to Annie because I gave birth to her and Hillary adopted her. But we have no relationship to each other. So we can't even be treated as a family in the world, when it comes right down to it, without stacks of legal documents. All of this, these forms, the health care proxy, the durable power of attorney.

DELANEY: Were Julie or Hillary Goodrich suddenly ill or in an accident the other partner could be kept out of the emergency room without pages of special permission.

(on camera): What worries, in fact, a much better word might be horrifies, opponents of same sex marriage here in Massachusetts is very much that word, marriage. In Vermont, same sex relationships are civil unions. There's a difference.

(voice-over): Civil unions under Vermont's state law confer most of the rights of marriage. State rights, though, can be challenged under federal law, particularly since Vermont avoided that word, marriage. A Vermont employer is currently citing federal law to avoid paying health insurance to a partner in a civil union.

MARY BONAUTO, GAY AND LESBIAN ADVOCATES AND DEFENDERS, CIVIL RIGHTS DIRECTOR, G.L.A.D.: There are no protections from the federal government with a civil union.

DELANEY: Many on both sides of the issue believe the Massachusetts courts will rule in favor of same sex marriages this fall, with the battle to ban the marriages through legislation or a constitutional amendment likely to continue for years.

Bill Delaney, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: This morning, we are talking with advocates and opponents in the debate over same sex marriages. On the side of opposing gay marriage, Bryan Rudnick. He is chairman of Massachusetts Citizen's for Marriage, and Chester Darling of Citizens for the Preservation of Constitutional Rights, a public interest law firm. And the side supporting same sex marriage this morning is represented by Mary Bonauto, civil rights director with the New England wide Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders, or GLAD, as you've heard them called, and same-sex partners Ed Balmelli and Mike Horgan (ph). Welcome to all of you.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good morning.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good morning, Leon. Thank you.

HARRIS: I want to start with you, Ed and Mike, because as I understand it, you actually have gone ahead and tried to get married, is that correct?

ED BALMELLI: We had a civil union up in Vermont this past fall.

HARRIS: All right, as I understand it you were -- are you currently suing right now in the state of Massachusetts to allow ourselves to be married, correct?

BALMELLI: That's correct.

HARRIS: OK. Why?

BALMELLI: Well, we love each other. We've been together six years and we plan on staying together. We're committed to each other and we want to plan a better future for ourselves.

HARRIS: OK, then, let's go over to Bryan Rudnick. What's wrong with that?

RUDNICK: Well, marriage is the union between one man and one woman, Leon. And here in Massachusetts, it's one of 16 states that does not legally define marriage. We mention marriage in our laws hundreds of times and in court papers, but we don't define it. And that's because everybody understood marriage to be between one man and one woman until recently where several people, such as this couple, have confused the process and confused people, thinking that any two people, any three or any four people could get married and like I've said, marriage is one man, one woman. That's what the people believe it is and that's what it's always been.

HARRIS: All right, Chester, let me get you to weigh in since we have you up on camera right now. Is that how you see it as well? And are we talking here basically about semantics, whether the word marriage is, I guess, a description of a moral condition or a legal one?

CHESTER DARLING, PUBLIC INTEREST ATTORNEY: Well, it's both. The issue principally before us today, whether it's in the courts or in the ballot box, are the raising of children. The ideal unit to raise children in any society is a father and a mother. And the institution of marriage is now under attack here in the courts and hopefully we'll be able to get a vote at the ballot box.

The proponents of same sex marriage hopefully can avoid that by appearing in the friendly court system in Massachusetts, which they have done successfully before, to avoid hearing the voice of the people.

HARRIS: Well, Ed, Mike, let me ask you, are you intending to have children?

HORGAN: Not right now. We're just at a point where we've got enough nieces and nephews and we're really into that part of the family.

HARRIS: But are you holding out the possibility that you will have children some time down the road?

BALMELLI: Sure.

HARRIS: Yes?

BALMELLI: It's a possibility. HARRIS: All right, well, Mary, let's hear from you on this.

BONAUTO: Right now four of the seven couples who are seeking marriage from the state of Massachusetts, in fact, have children that they're raising in the context of their relationship and those children need the protections and benefits that come from marriage as much as children in any other relationship. It simply does no good to protect -- it's ridiculous to say you're going to protect children by withholding from their parents all of the legal protections and benefits that come through marriage.

And with Ed and Mike here, we're simply talking about a couple who love each other, are committed to each other and want to secure the same kinds of protections for their family as other families have through civil marriage.

HARRIS: But as I understand it, Chester Darling, what you've said is that what you're trying to protect children from is the confusion that arises from this, correct?

DARLING: Well, just consider this. Right now in, anyone in kindergarten on in public schools, "Heather Has Two Mommies" is now being discussed with those children, which is very confusing to them because they're not sexually -- they don't understand what sexual issues are in the first place. And now they'll be confronted with a marriage of two male persons as a marriage as opposed -- can you see the confusion that's involved here?

HARRIS: Well, let me ask Ed and Mike that. Do you see that confusion, Ed and Mike? Do you see that as a problem?

HORGAN: We were just actually at my parents this weekend and I went to visit them and when I walked in my 4-year-old nephew said, "Where's Uncle Mike?" They see us as unit. He's not confused that we belong together.

HARRIS: You know, Bryan Rudnick, let's go to you. If they do this and if they do this in their own home and they are not necessarily foisting this upon anyone else, this is just what they want to do between themselves and they're not putting this, forcing you to do this, why does this affect you? Why is this a problem for the rest of the state?

RUDNICK: Well, actually, you know, the Commonwealth is affected by a change in the family unit, a change in the family structure. What happens when you legalize alternative relationships is you force taxpayers to burden things such as domestic partnership benefits. And they're very expensive.

Right now legislation pending at the statehouse would cost at least $15 million in the first year to give benefits to unmarried heterosexual and homosexual partners. And this creates a lot of confusion. It's a Trojan horse for gay marriage. And in a state where we don't legally define marriage yet, which needs to be done first, because everybody understands marriage is between one man and one woman, because that's what the people want. So we're going to give the people an opportunity to decide this issue for themselves rather than just debate the issue. It's time that the people speak rather than having judges speak for them.

HARRIS: Yes, I think it's kind of hard for some of us to understand the situation that Ed and Mike are in because we don't have necessarily the same things that are thwarting our intentions. But Ed and Mike, let me ask you this on the way out here, if you lose in this lawsuit, then what?

BALMELLI: Well, we're not giving up. We will continue on.

HARRIS: All right. Well, listen, we thank you very much for coming in and sharing this, your story with us and your points of view, all, Mary Bonauto, Ed Balmelli, Mike Horgan and Bryant Rudnick and Chester Darling. Thank you very much.

DARLING: You're welcome.

RUDNICK: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.

HARRIS: We sure do appreciate it and we will be watching to see how this all turns out and no doubt we will talk about this again.

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