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American Morning

Anthrax Investigation: Interview of Attorney for Military Officers Who Refused Vaccinations

Aired October 17, 2001 - 09:25   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Vaccinations against anthrax were given to U.S. military personnel in the Gulf War; however, many people believe the shots may have contributed to the mysterious Gulf War syndrome.

Joining us live, from Washington, is John Michels, attorney for two U.S. officers who refused to take anthrax shots.

Good morning.

First of all, your reaction to this breaking news, that 20 folks in Sen. Daschle's office have now tested positive for anthrax exposure?

JOHN MICHELS JR., MCGUIRE WOODS LAW FIRM: Good morning, Paula.

I think it is a reflection of the fact that whoever synthesized this did it in right away. They've got to get sides of spores correct, between 1 and 5 microns, and it has to be coated so it doesn't clump together. And it appears that that was done. I think it points to a very sophisticated manufacturing process, probably done by a nation state.

ZAHN: Richard Butler, who was the UN weapons inspector in Iraq, basically confirmed the same thing you are saying right now: Based on this testing that is done that, that would be the conclusion that everybody would be driven to.

Let's come back to the men that you represent. First of all, what happened to these men when they refused to take the anthrax vaccine?

MICHELS: Both Maj. Sonny Bates and Capt. John Buck had court- martial charges preferred against them. That is they were charged with failure to follow lawful orders of their commander. Instead of taking a court-martial, Maj. Bates elected to accept an administrative separation from the Air Force. He is now a civilian. Capt. Buck was actually court-martialed last May, was convicted of failure to follow an order. He was restricted to base for a period of 60 days; he hasn't served that off yet. He is now no longer at his base; in fact, he is deployed in response to the events of September 11.

ZAHN: Explain to the folks that are watching this morning why they felt so strongly about not taking this vaccine.

MICHELS: It was combination of factors. In Maj. Bates' case it was review of the literature that we had managed to pull together for him, showing that, in fact, the vaccine had been placed in experimental status, by the manufacturer, back in 1996. There is a law that says -- and it is a result of the Gulf War, passed as a result of Gulf War on the use of investigational drugs or experimental drugs -- this statute says you can't give service members investigational new drugs without their consent. And Maj. Bates objected.

Capt. Bucks' objections were more a little more scientifically oriented, because he is a physician. His objections were that the vaccine, he didn't feel, was adequately tested, it wasn't an adequate force protector, and he had some real concerns about the side effects that we have been seeing over the last couple of years of the program.

ZAHN: You get people on who say that they can't establish any linkage between Gulf War syndrome and this vaccination, yet one of your clients believes that is exactly what the case is, right?

MICHELS: He wasn't sure. There were some concerns about that. I think I should note that it is impossible to establish a Gulf War syndrome linkage, because the shot records of the individuals who took this stuff were not annotated during the Gulf War, reflecting that they took the vaccine.

ZAHN: What do you think about the fact that there is talk the government will actually try to increase supplies of the anthrax vaccine and may potentially suggest that Americans might have to get these vaccinations?

MICHELS: I think that would require some further investigation. As I'm sure you are aware, the manufacturer has not passed an FDA inspection yet that would allow to it produce the vaccine. The manufacturer put the vaccine in experimental status with regard to aerosol or inhalation anthrax back in 1996. That application to the FDA is still pending, and in fact, it was recognized as an experimental application by the FDA in 1996.

And there are a lot of side effects there.

ZAHN: John, thanks so much.

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