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American Morning
Osama Bin Laden Hiding in Tunnels of Afghanistan
Aired October 29, 2001 - 11:41 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Reuters news service reported that two people were killed when U.S. war planes hit an area of caves and tunnels in eastern Afghanistan today, known, they say, as a hide-out of Osama bin Laden.
Joie Chen now with more on cave warfare and its possible role in the conflict thus far. Joie, good morning again.
JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, again, Bill. We have heard from a number of experts who have been on the ground and thoroughly study the situation in Afghanistan. The defense officials acknowledge that there are at least hundreds, probably thousands, though, of caves and tunnels, and aqueducts among the mountains and deserts of Afghanistan, and many of which can certainly serve as hiding places for the Taliban or anyone else who may want to hide there.
CNN military analyst, Retired Major General Don Shepperd is here with us to talk about this. And General, certainly from your experience in Vietnam, you know what it is to face a formidable enemy that goes underground.
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Indeed, they can sneak up from underground and jump on you and they can do it day or night. At a trip last year, I was with a group in Vietnam and we visited the Vin Mot (ph) tunnels, where a whole city of almost 5,000 people existed underground for major portions of the Vietnam War.
We also visited the Cu Chi tunnels which came up within about a mile of the base where I was stationed and we didn't even know those tunnels existed. They are something again, in the way of a complex.
CHEN: Well, Afghanistan, we understand, t is a maze of tunnels going back to Alexander the Great's time, which they initially used to bring water resources to the surface. But some of these things have been developed into elaborate cave and tunnel networks. I want to take a look at some graphic pictures.
First of all, we do want to mention, that some of the experts say the networks case, found primarily in southern Afghanistan, also in eastern Afghanistan as well. The Taliban, of course you know, has a stronghold area at Kandahar. Let's show you some of the animations of how U.S. forces might be able to find someone hiding in the cave. Imagine if you were, maybe a group of Taliban fighters, you see them depicted here, maybe two, maybe more.
A couple guys sitting underground in one of these caves. Maybe they built a fire to keep themselves warm. At that point, a reconnaissance plane might come in, you see there, depicted here as a predator, one of the unmanned probes that can go along, it can detect the heat of the fire using thermal detection devices, that actually can detect heat from underground.
Now the drone's controllers would then be able to call in bombers that would come in, say the form of the B-2 bomber, and then, the B-2 can attack the target with those big Bunker Buster bombs. We have heard about those, 5,000-pound bombs that are able to penetrate deep underground. These were first established at the time of the Gulf War when they knew they had to go after Saddam Hussein's forces deep in these bunkers underground. Now it might be of some use here.
General, as you look at these things and you analyze that situation, I guess for a lot of people, the notion that the Taliban can hide underground in these tunnels seems almost impossible to locate. How can you find them in thousands and thousands of tunnels?
SHEPPERD: You described it very well. There are two types of tunnels: The natural tunnels, which are used are the tunnels that have been dug out which have been use for irrigation for centuries, back to Alexander the Great and later the Mongol time when people hid. And you can hide in those almost at will.
But the military tunnels that the Taliban and others have dug are much more formidable. They are deep. They are well defended. Some even have steel doors as well as brick floors. And have you to know exactly where the tunnel is. In other words, you see the opening to the tunnel, but then where does it go? Left or right? Extend, then left or right? You have to be able to get the bomb in where it is. This is a formidable target with thousands of these over the countryside.
CHEN: Certainly will become a topic of much conversation. In the end though, you are probably still going to need ground troops?
SHEPPERD: Could be indeed. We will do as much as we can from the air but there will be a lot of Special Forces involved in getting people out of these tunnels, Joie.
CHEN: Major General Don Shepherd, our CNN military specialist. Thank you very much.
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