Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Northern Alliance Claims to Have Taken Key City

Aired November 09, 2001 - 11:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: At this time, CNN's Ben Wedeman now calling again, once again by telephone, in northern Afghanistan. Ben, we spoke 25 minutes ago. Update us on your position first and your position relative to Mazar-e-Sharif.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes. I'm still in Hoda Bahojadeen (ph), which is quite some ways back from Mazar-e- Sharif, but we have heard General Dosim directly claiming that, from within Mazar-e-Sharif itself, that they have taken the city.

Their claims are that the city was taken about -- rather the advance of the city began four and a half hours ago. They say they sustained minimal casualties, just four of their soldiers killed. Many more Taliban casualties. This, of course, cannot be verified. There are no western reporters or any reporters, to the best of our knowledge, in that city.

But, certainly they're not backing down on those claims. And his claim, in fact from within the city itself, would indicate that possibly these claims could be true. Bill?

HEMMER: Also about defections Ben. Any word on that, and also, when we talk about the numbers here. It's gone back and forth at different times, and certainly different sides use those numbers to their advantage. What do they say more about the Taliban? Have they captured many?

WEDEMAN: Well, what they -- they're saying is that some of the -- they don't go into specific numbers. They say some of the Taliban defected to the Northern Alliance. That many were captured. We don't have specific numbers on these and, in fact, even if they gave numbers there's good reason to question those.

But certainly, the speed at which the city fell, if it in fact fell, of course, it would indicate that there has been some sort of collapse of the defenses or a strategic retreat by the Taliban. Four and a half hours to capture a major city, is quite stunning for the war in Afghanistan, in which every foot of the way has been fought with a very high toll on both sides. So, I would seriously wait for some sort of independent verification or confirmation of these numbers coming out of Mazar-e-Sharif.

HEMMER: Ben, we heard from Bob Franken at the Pentagon. They have nothing to say at this point on this, but perhaps later we will get something. Ben, quickly before I let you go. We've talked so much about the oncoming winter and the winter weather there. Conditions right now, where you are in northern Afghanistan. Give us a description.

WEDEMAN: Well, today, for instance, was a very hazy, windy, dusty day. The expectation is that winter is very much around the corner. The difficult road conditions that exist in the best of times are obviously going to go much further downhill. Today, in fact, we were at a front line position of the Northern Alliance. I spoke to one of their commanders. He said when winter sets in, rain makes very difficult for them to move around. The roads -- to the extent that these roads actually can be described as such -- are blocked by snow. The fog, the mist cuts down visibility, so what it appears, at the moment, is that there's some sort of push to make progress before weather really becomes a major impediment.

In fact, we were in the Dashni Palla (ph) area, which is to the west of where I am. And we saw troops and ammunitions being moved toward the fronts. So, I -- it looks like they're trying to take maximum advantage of the very little good weather that's remaining for this year. Bill?

HEMMER: Ben Wedeman on the ground. Stay safe. We'll be back in touch momentarily.

In the meantime, back in this country, let's talk with our CNN Military Analyst, Retired General David Grange joins us live from Chicago.

General, good morning to you.

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning.

HEMMER: Your initial reaction to the claims we're getting from the Northern Alliance?

GRANGE: Yeah, I would say Ben is right on. Be suspect of the first report. Let's wait to see what else is reported, at least by, let's say, some western observers that may be in the area.

They appear to at least have a foothold in the -- in the city. It takes a while to security a city, however. It's not just occupying or searching the buildings within a city proper itself. But you have to control the dominating terrain around the city. You have to dominate the routes that come and go through -- to the city. Both for enemy reinforcements approaching or bringing in your supplies to the city itself.

So, it's a little bit more than just, "I'm in the city." It's got to be developed somewhat. You know, it would be great if they do get this.

HEMMER: As a general you know quite well the operations of special operation forces on the ground. The handful that we have talked about -- or been told about anyway in northern Afghanistan. Would they be able to go ahead and verify this? Would they be moving with this front line of Northern Alliance troops into that town, if indeed this where the case and true today?

GRANGE: I would imagine that they -- they would be in the proximity, and they would be -- that would be our best report. Eyes on the ground by an American soldier, special forces. Possibly that's observing and assessing the situation. That would be our best report. And I imagine that our command over there -- America commanders would be waiting for those reports.

HEMMER: I want to go back to the map, and I want you talk about a bit of strategy right now. It's being discussed right now, by certain military analyst here, that if you can take Mazar-e-Sharif -- if you can hold before the bad weather does indeed turn very soon at some point -- you could continue to build up and really ramp up your operation inside the country itself.

When you look at that strategy on face value, do you like it?

GRANGE: I do. Mazar-e-Sharif is key to open up land routes of supply for the Northern Alliance as well as for this refugee situation. There's going to be people coming to this area now that the Northern Alliance dominated -- if that's in fact true -- you're going to have some Taliban units possibly change sides. There's going to be a lot of people to feed, to sort out, shelters to erect. It's going to be a very important location for that reason. But most importantly, is a psychological effect that this victory will have on the Northern Alliance, for them themselves, and the people that are watching from countries around Afghanistan. Very important.

HEMMER: Yes, tell us why that is so important, because we're talking about town in the far reaches of the country. There's a lot...

GRANGE: It doesn't matter.

HEMMER: ...of Afghanistan that still has to be conquered?

GRANGE: It does. But again to win you don't have to conquer every piece of Afghanistan. What you want to do is take some key terrains and key locations. It can be political significance like Kabul. It could be a strategic site like Mazar-e-Sharif. The point is, they have major victory. Before it's all been hit and runs, small skirmishes, you won an ambush here, you win a raid there. Those are small things. Small interdicting type operations. This would be major victory in their eyes, and again it would be a feather in their cap, a great morale boost for the Northern Alliance.

HEMMER: As you well know, also, the terrain is quite tough. Mountains around the city. If you have Taliban troops perched on the mountains outside of town, how do you best rid yourself of that situation?

GRANGE: Yeah, this, this could become a situation like Kason in Vietnam, or some of the dominating terrain in many wars that Americans and other forces have fought in. High ground doesn't necessarily mean you have an advantage. But you obviously always have observation. You can call in fire. And so, any observation that -- of, of Mazar-e-Sharif that -- where they can put in fires on the Northern Alliance would have to be eradicated. So, it requires sweeping the areas around the town itself, not just occupying the town.

HEMMER: Thank you, General. David Grange, we'll speak again, all right?.

GRANGE: Alright, thank you.

HEMMER: David Grange live from Chicago. Many thanks there. Again, the claim that Northern Alliance troops have entered the town of Mazar-e-Sharif, certainly we will track this throughout the morning here and into the afternoon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com