Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

In Afghanistan, Reports of Fighting in Kandahar; Russian President Putin Arrives at Bush Ranch for further Discussions on Nuclear Arms

Aired November 14, 2001 - 10:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We begin in Kabul, where CNN's Matthew Chance is standing by with the latest -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Miles, dramatic military developments across Afghanistan with those reports of fighting filtering through of course from the city of Kandahar, the main stronghold of the Taliban, and to the southwest of the Afghan capital. Also in Jalalabad, fighting reported on the streets there also, to the east of where I'm standing right now. No confirmation yet though about the reports about the extent of the losses or gains. Expect to be looking at it and suppose about what developments there have been in those two cities. Certainly we're watching it very closely, and we will bring you the latest details as we are it.

The Northern Alliance forces apparently keeping up that pressure on the Taliban we have seen in the past week of course, of course; The capture the strategic northern city of Mazar-e Sharif, Herat in the west, of course, and of course the city where I'm standing right now, the Afghan capital of Kabul.

I tell you, the situation here contrasts very starkly with those reports we are getting from those other cities elsewhere in the country. The situation here very calm. Forces of the opposition Northern Alliance have moved in their troops in some numbers to guard road junctions and key civil installations here, really imposing their stability on the Afghan capital.

Throughout the course of today, we have been speaking with residents of Kabul. They have been expressing their optimism to us, that now they believe, many of them that we have spoken to, this could be the final time when peace comes finally back to this, the Afghan capital. Still, a lot of concerns though about the fact that the Northern Alliance are back in power here, and that divided history that the alliance has had could plunge this city back, according to the concerns of many local residence, plunge it back into the kind of violence that really ravaged Kabul in the years before the Taliban finally took over.

Certainly, from the Northern Alliance perspective, they say that is something they are bearing in mind. Indeed, they say it is the reason they moved their troops into Kabul in the first place, to prevent this city degenerating into some form of anarchy. So that's the situation as we see it here. From the Afghan capital, Kabul.

Back to you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Michael, that last point that you made about the fact that the last occasion when the Northern Alliance ruled over Kabul was not exactly a pleasant time for the people there and for the country. I wonder if that is in any way tempering the jubilation that we saw on tape and which you reported about yesterday.

CHANCE: Certainly, we have been seeing those scenes of joy as the Northern Alliance troops passed through the streets of central Afghanistan, rather central Kabul.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Those scenes masking perhaps the level of concern among many residents of Kabul who remember what it was like the last time the Northern Alliance were in power here, and the last time President Rabbani was in his seat of office here in the Afghan capital, that ferocious infighting that left thousands dead on the streets of Kabul between the different competing ethnic groups and political organizations. The hope now is of course that they will be able to build some kind of power-sharing administration to avoid all that chaos.

O'BRIEN: Matthew, we have heard reports from the Pentagon in the U.S. that there are special operations forces, U.S. military special operations forces, working in concert with the Northern Alliance, and that they are attempting to keep the Northern Alliance from engaging in the sorts of atrocities which often happen in this case. Have you seen much evidence of that, or do you think at this juncture the Northern Alliance is pretty much working independently?

CHANCE: It's difficult to say. Certainly we have seen some indications, evidence in fact, that special forces are indeed assisting the Northern Alliance with their military campaign. During the push on the Afghan capital itself, back on Monday, of course, we managed a videotape of what we believe to be Western special forces, military advisers, apparently coordinating the very intensive airstrikes on those frontline positions of the Taliban, of course, to such devastating effect.

On the question of whether they are tempering the response of the Northern Alliance when they enter these places, we certainly haven't seen any evidence of that. What we have seen, though, is the Northern Alliance themselves saying that sending in their security personnel, to try and stop places like Kabul, places like other cities really degenerating into anarchy, and to stop the widespread sort of looting and killing that may be expected when there is such a dramatic withdrawal of a military force like the Taliban, such as the withdraw we've seen here in Kabul, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Matthew, then generally speaking, the streets are fairly quiet in Kabul?

CHANCE: Extremely quiet at this stage. Extremely calm, not so much quiet. There is a lot of economic activity under way. The shops have opened up, this time though without the kind of restrictions imposed upon them by the puritanical Taliban, of course. We were visiting a photographic shop earlier today, for instance, and he was rearranging, the owner of that shop was rearranging his window display to put in photographs of actual movie stars, dressed, posing provocatively, I suppose, the kind of photograph which would have been completely outlawed by the Taliban. In fact, even the women's are still keeping their burkas on.

There is a degree of relief. Acts of resistance, we are seeing on the streets, lots of men going to barber shops, having their beards completely shaved off or just trimmed. Of course, that was in itself banned by the Taliban, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Haircuts, pictures and music, all signs of the end of some difficult repression.

Matthew Chance live from Kabul, thank you very much for your good work there. We appreciate it.

Now let's take a glimpse on the U.S. battleplan now that things have shifted so dramatically in Afghanistan.

CNN's Jonathan Aiken joining us from the Pentagon with more on that -- Jonathan.

JONATHAN AIKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

The overall strategy hasn't changed much. The situation has remained very fluid on the ground. In fact, a senior Defense Department official told us within the hour -- a quote here -- "It is far from being a stable situation anywhere yet." There you see the fluid nature of what's happening. Conflicting reports coming in as to who controls what city, who is fighting whom where.

To that end, the strategy, though, the overall umbrella strategy of the U.S. effort, hasn't really changed. It is still to seek out and find the leadership of both Al Qaeda and also the Taliban. To that end, U.s. Strike aircraft in the air overnight, 77 of them being used, focusing we're told on caves and tunnels that have used by Al Qaeda and by Taliban leaders in the past.

You look at this map that shows you here exactly where the areas of Northern Alliance control are. Those are the boxes in red. As for the caves and the tunnels, we are not being told specific locations where these bombing runs were done. In the past, there has been a great deal of interest to the north of Kandahar, to east of Kabul, and near Taloqan, which is up in the right-hand corner of your screen not far from Tajikistan.

From the map in Afghanistan, we go to ground zero in New York City. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was there this morning. He was getting a tour of the former site of the World Trade Towers. New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani joining him there. And Rumsfeld re- emphasized the point that finding Osama bin Laden and the leadership of Al Qaeda remains job one for the U.S. military, but it will be a tough job at that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Our task is to find the Al Qaeda and the Taliban leadership, and we still have that ahead of us, and so we have to be purposeful about that, and recognize that will continue to be a difficult task. It is -- finding handfuls of people is indeed like finding needles in a haystack, and it is a complicated process. But because of all of the pressure put on across the globe, the drying up at bank accounts, the numbers of arrests that have been made, the interrogations that have been held, the intelligence that's been gathered, I think that we have -- everyday, we have a better chance of achieving our goals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AIKEN: And, Miles, we are likely to get some more details on how the U.S. is achieving those goals through military operations when we get our daily briefing here about three and a half hours from now -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: We'll be watching along with you, CNN's Jonathan Aiken at the Pentagon. Let's get some further military insights from our war room. Our Joie Chen joined with retired Major General Don Shepherd with a sense of where the Taliban may be headed and what they might be doing next -- Joie.

JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, we are trying to get a fix first off on where things stand right now. General Shepherd here with us in the map room. As we try to figure out exactly where the fighting is going on right now, general, and what is happening to the retreating Taliban forces.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, (RET.) CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Joie, there is reportedly fighting going on in the Konduz area up here. What's going on is finishing up, mopping up, providing stability, and providing a long-term government throughout the country. In Konduz, the fighters reportedly are retreating Al Qaeda forces. We have Pakistani volunteers, we've got Chechens, we've got Arabs in this area, and hard fighting reportedly going on in this area. Also some strikes this morning east of Jalalabad. Lots of sympathy for the retreating Taliban in this area. Lots of Pashtuns in Pakistan, and out to the east of Quetta, and also east of Jalalabad in this area.

Now we also have retreating forces going from Kabul reportedly going down the Taliban, what's left of them into the Kandahar area, and fighting going on, hard fighting going on in the Kandahar area, as well as supposedly many retreating into the mountains here.

Now if you think of Kabul as Denver, you think of this as Aspen, the continental divide here, think of crossing the Rocky Mountains and think of all of the roads, all the places to hide, and you're looking for one person, a small entourage in the case of bin Laden, and small cells of Al Qaeda in Rocky Mountains, really difficult. Sounds easy. It's not easy at all.

CHEN: We have depicted this here as being a column of tanks, but in fact, general, there might be some dispersion into these areas. SHEPPERD: Well, two things to think about here. One is, you've got to find the he retreating tanks, but you've got to make sure when you find them that you hit the enemy tanks and not the friendly tanks. Remember, all of the tanks on both sides are either captured or are material left over from Soviet-Afghanistan war, so it all looks alike. And you have to have observers on the ground with these fast-moving forces who are pointing out the right ones, so you don't hit the Northern Alliance and coalition forces, rather than the Taliban.

CHEN: We have seen some videotape from the Pentagon in reference to some of these retreating forces. Give us an understanding of what's going on here?

SHEPPERD: Right. Well, what's happening is, you've got laser- guided weapons, in this case being directed at moving vehicles, and you are trying to hit them on the move. In case of one of them that we saw yesterday, it was hit. In the case of another one, it was missed. They called him the luckiest driver in Afghanistan, because it hit right behind him. We saw some of the same things in the Gulf War. We have weapons that will hit these retreating forces day and night in all kinds of weather, so it's not easy to do, especially with the chaos going on; you've got you to be very, very careful.

CHEN: Quick word here on the search for Osama bin Laden and the sympathies he has in the areas around Afghanistan.

SHEPPERD: Lots of sympathies in areas called Pashtunistan. Lots of Pashtuns in this areas, east of Quetta, into the Jalalabad area, they can, in the case of Omar, and even bin Laden, could retreat into Pakistan and meld into sympathizers in this particular area. That's a possibility.

CHEN: Populations that would welcome them, or at least help to shelter them.

SHEPPERD: Indeed. Indeed.

CHEN: Thank you very much.

Major General Don Shepherd.

And as we look to later in this hour, Miles, we are going to be talking with the general about what comes next, not only for the forces on the ground, but also the U.S. forces and what their responsibility will be in the days to come -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Joie, General Shepperd, thank you very much both.

We have been talking all morning about how chaotic this situation is, post-fall of Kabul and the apparent, well, route, if you will, of the Taliban.

Let's take a look at pictures we just got in from the Al-Jazeera network out of Qatar, and these are pictures which come from Kandahar. And we are told these scenes depict pro-Taliban demonstrators in Kandahar. Now Kandahar is a stronghold for the Taliban. The leader of the Taliban, Mullah Omar, with roots there. And there is some indication that Al Qaeda may have several locations in which to hide in and around that region, some indication that Osama bin Laden might in fact be hiding there. Certainly the focus of the U.S. military campaign now shifts to this area.

Meanwhile, on the other side of things, to give you some indication that this is, by no means a done deal there, if you will, those who are anti-Taliban have also been protesting there. And given the repressive nature of the Taliban, a strong indication that tides of war may, in fact, be shifting, if in fact anti-Taliban forces are willing to protest in this stronghold of the Taliban. That perhaps is some indication. We don't want to read too much into the images that we see.

Nevertheless, once again courtesy of Al-Jazeera, the Arabic news channel out of Qatar, we have some indication of protest pro and con Taliban in Kandahar.

We are watching developments minute by minute in Afghanistan. Later this hour, an in-depth look at difficulties and dangers facing one of the key players in this region, Pakistan. The United Nations is being called on from all sides to lead Afghanistan into a new and peaceful future. But can it? We will be live at United Nations in New York with that, and as the future of the Taliban hangs in the balance, we will consult with General Shepherd once again on what's next for military operations.

The world stage moves to Crawford, Texas today, a sleepy backdrop for what may be the most important U.S./Russian meeting in decades.

Russian President Vladimir Putin arrives this afternoon at the Bush ranch for further discussions on nuclear arms and the global balance of power.

Major Garrett is there, near the ranch -- Major.

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

We are getting ready for day two and tomorrow day three of the three-day Bush-Putin summit. This is the Texas phase of that summit, and as you said, ongoing conversations between the two leaders about a wide range of issues, not the least of which is a joint decision by both leaders to dramatically reduce nuclear arsenals. I'll get to that in a minute.

A couple of updates on some developing stories, Miles. One, senior officials tell CNN that they are aware of a German publication report this morning that the eight Western aid workers held by the Taliban have in fact been released.

Senior administration officials tell CNN though they are aware of that report, they have been unable to confirm it, and are trying to do so, as the day goes forward.

Also, administration officials trying to put into context the level of expectations now that so much terrain has been gathered and won by the Northern Alliance, saying look, there are many crucial objectives that have yet to be realized in Afghanistan. Chief among them, the securing of all of the terrain, the securing of Osama bin Laden, and Mullah Omar, and so until those objectives are realized, senior administration officials tell CNN, all components of the military campaign will continue, all components of the diplomatic pressure and financial war against Al Qaeda will continue apace.

President Bush arrived here in Crawford last night with the first lady, Laura Bush, getting ready for this Texas phase of the Bush-Putin summit. And earlier, while the president was with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, in Washington, he announced the U.S. portion of a unilateral disarmament and reduction of strategic nuclear weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: I've informed President Putin that the United States reduce our operationally deployed strategic nuclear warheads to a level between 1,700 and 2,200 over the next decade, a level fully consistent with American security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GARRETT: Miles, as the president was flying here to Crawford, senior administration officials were telling reporters, they expect Mr. Putin would respond in kind within a day or two. Well, it came within mere hours. At the Russian embassy last night, Vladimir Putin says his country will also reduce its nuclear stockpile by 2/3. Both countries moving now toward unilateral disarmament. Now the next big issue for the two countries is ballistic missile defense. No agreement there. The United States still looking for a means to win Russian approval of testing of the ballistic missile defense system.

Maybe that will be achieved while the two leaders talk here in Crawford -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: It's worth pointing out here that on any normal day, in any normal news environment, that would be a very big story, and here it is, sort of buried beneath the news of war.

GARRETT: Miles, it would be the story of our lifetime. Since you were born, since I were born, this idea of a bipolar world dominated by two very strong super nuclear powers facing off against one another with enough armaments to destroy the world a hundred times over, dramatically, unilaterally reducing those without any formal treaty negotiations whatsoever, just turning to one another and saying, I am going to reduce ours, the other one saying, we'll reduce ours, it would be a phenomenal development, but there are so many other pieces of information we have to shift through now, it just part of an ever changing and very, very big story.

O'BRIEN: All right, a bit of perspective.

Thank you very much, CNN's Major Garret in Crawford, Texas.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com