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Sound Off: Has the U.S. Compromised Military Objectives Just to Win War of Public Relations?

Aired November 19, 2001 - 08:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: There are at least two battles under way in Afghanistan, for the control of Konduz and Kandahar. And ever since the air war began, there have been Taliban claims of heavy civilian casualties. The U.S. says it has gone to great lengths to avoid bombing civilian areas. But has the U.S. compromised military objectives just to win the war of public relations?

With both sides now, Bob Beckel, Democratic political strategist, and Cliff May, the former Republican National Committee communications director. They both joins us from Washington.

Good morning.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: During this Thanksgiving week.

All right, gentlemen, I'd like for both of you to respond to a little bit of what appeared in "The Washington Post" over the weekend. I'm just going to read a quick sentence or two here, and this is a direct quote. "As many as 10 times over the last six weeks, the Air Force believed it had top Taliban and Al Qaeda members in its crosshairs in Afghanistan, but was unable to receive clearance to fire in time to hit them." The article goes on to say, one reason for that might have been the fear of hitting civilians.

Cliff May, is that justified?

MAY: Yes. Let me make this a little bit vivid for you. Once incident that's mentioned in the article was a convoy, a Taliban convoy, military convoy, heading north, sitting duck, and the Air Force didn't want to hit it. They wanted to be very careful. Why? Because they thought that military convoy might be filled with children, that the Taliban had put children in it. Why? Because they wanted the U.S. Air Force to hit it so they could bring the journalists in and show all the poor kids killed and wounded by the U.S. And Al-Jazeera and other news outlets would show that all over the Arab world and rile up great anger and antipathy toward the United States. So we didn't hit it.

I think that was right for us to do, to hold back and hesitate. Why? Because it's very important that we not let them to us, for example, do what the terrorists have done to Israel for years, which is push out children to get killed so they can use it for propaganda value.

And the fact of the matter is, Paula, we're winning this war, even while we're being very careful not to have civilian casualties. Don't forget, the Afghanis are looking at us as liberators. We want them to look at us as liberators, because we are liberating them from an oppressive regime. And if and when we have to go into Iraq, Iran or Syria or any other country, same thing, avoid civilian casualties if we can, liberate those countries and get rid of the terrorists, that's what we should be doing.

ZAHN: All right, but, Bob Beckel, this article goes on to say that this has clearly slowed down the campaign. It has caused now American ground forces to be used maybe in an unexpected way now. Has the military objective been compromised, do you think, by worrying too much about civilians here, Bob?

BOB BEKCEL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: If anybody thinks things haven't change since September 11th, here you've got Cliff May being a wuss pacifists and me as a liberal taking a very strong military position.

The fact of the matter is, we've got to remember here, these guys flew planes in and killed 5,000 American citizens. And the idea somehow for public relations -- and that's because the White House was behind the curve. If they'd been in front of the curve, this wouldn't have been a problem. To hold the military back from going in and doing their objective, therefore forcing special-ops on the ground, people who could be killed for a -- quote -- "public relations effort" is about as obscene an idea as I can possibly imagine.

Wait a second.

And that allowed the CIA to go on the ground. Right now, the CIA, it's reported today, are fighting on the ground. The CIA shouldn't be fighting anywhere. They used to do that. Remember in Central America, Cliff, when you guys used to overthrow governments all the time. The fact is that they should have let the military go.

And the worst thing I will say is, for the sake of "public relations," the military believes they had top Taliban officials and Al Qaeda officials, maybe even bin Laden, targeted, and they had to stop because somebody thought that some collateral damage may occur. What are you kidding me? The longer the war goes on, the more people get killed.

MAY: Bob, what your failing to perceive is that we actually are winning this war. The Taliban is folding up like a $3 suitcase. We're winning this war, and we're doing so while we are being very careful to avoiding civilian casualties where we can.

ZAHN: But, Cliff, would you acknowledge that this concern about civilian casualties has slowed down the process, and put U.S. special forces in greater danger than they might have been, if things had moved along more quickly? MAY: I'm not sure the process could go any faster than it's going. Who thought two weeks ago, that at this point in time, we would have the Taliban out of over 70 percent of Afghanistan, and we have the Al Qaeda on the run, and we have Kabul, and they would be all be flying kites and turning on TVs and greeting us as liberators. It's going as fast as we can want it to go.

Now yes, American troops are going to sometimes be in danger if they try to avoid civilian casualties, and the Afghani people, they're not our enemy; they're oppressed, and the Iraqi people, they are not our enemy, they're oppressed by Saddam Hussein.

We're making distinctions that civilized people do. We are civilization. We are fighting against barbaric elements. And yes, we want to protect innocent civilians. And Bob should be glad that we're doing that.

ZAHN: Bob, you're not -- are you telling us this morning, Bob, that it's OK to take out convoy of children when they're being used as human shields?

MAY: Precisely.

BECKEL: Have I told you it's OK? Do I like to see it? Absolutely not.

First of all, they've got no idea there were children in that convoy. And here's another thing, you slow the war down, and you allow the Taliban to reposition themselves in areas where they're highly populated with children. This is an old gig done by the Taliban and others in the Mideast. And I don't understand for a minute here what -- when Cliff says, we want to get rid of these barbarians. With all due respect, the Northern Alliance is not exactly someone I want my mother to have tea with -- and they -- and these guys would still be getting ready with their sleeping bags to sleep in the mountains if it hadn't been for us.

If you remember, we slowed this thing down before, because the White House hadn't been ready for the public relations problems. Once the military was let go, the Northern Alliance began to move.

MAY: Let's me remind you, Bob...

BECKEL: Wait a minute, Cliff, the question in my mind is, is it worthwhile to put American soldiers in harm's way because we're worried slightly about collateral damage. I mean -- collateral -- what more collateral damage do you need than the World Trade Center falling word?

ZAHN: All right, Cliff May, you get the final word. Give it to me in 10 seconds.

MAY: We've got 1.2 billion Muslims out there who are being fed a steady diet of lies about us. The fact of the matter is, we're civilized people, we avoid civilian deaths. The trick's that's been used against Israel is, we want to try to avoid. They put innocent children in front of the gunmen. If we can help it, we don't want to hurt them. We're still winning the war.

BECKEL: I noticed you did that in Vietnam on a regular basis, too.

But anyway, it's Thanksgiving week and I'm glad to have a battle here.

MAY: I knew you'd get the last word.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: And Cliff owes you three seconds the next time, Bob. You went over that 10-second cue.

Hey, gentlemen if I don't see you before Thanksgiving, have a great holiday. Thanks for joining us for "Sound Off."

MAY: You, too, Paula.

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