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American Morning

Evidence Iran Could Have the Bomb

Aired November 26, 2001 - 08:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Ever since the terrorist attacks of September 11th, there have been concerns about nuclear terrorism. One worry is about potential conflict between Pakistan and India, both of which have nuclear weapons. Now there is evidence another nation in that volatile region could have the bomb: Iran.

Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh examines that issue in detail in this week's issue of "New Yorker" magazine. He writes, "Iran is a budding nuclear power." He joins us now from Washington.

Welcome back. Good to have you with us this morning.

SEYMOUR HERSH, "NEW YORKER": Good to be here.

ZAHN: Thank you.

So how close is Iran to having a nuclear weapon?

They've been at it for about 30 years. They sought it out under the Shah. The Shah was overthrown, the Shah of Iran was overthrown in '79, and the last 10 years, they've been working very hard with Russian help. And they're not close to being in the assembly line business. They can't turn out bombs. They're not near that, but they're close, and a lot of people in America and in Israel, which watches Iran, too, worry about -- they're getting close to point where we can't stop them with external controls, like import controls or preventing them from getting equipment from third world countries or whatever. So they're getting to point where they're indigenously capable of making the bomb.

And what makes us nervous, and I should add the Israelis nervous, is they've been digging, the last couple of years the Iranians have taken everything underground. We heard earlier about Osama bin Laden in his cave. Well, they've been digging in Iran for a few years, and increasingly.

And the other major point I wrote about is simply that Iran is now our new buddy in the war in Afghanistan. Since 09/11 -- September the 11th -- Iran's been doing something which is pretty unique. They've been providing intelligence to us. They've been letting us use some bases there for rescue efforts. And this is a country that, as you know, the Mullahs there, death to America was a common refrain. So we have a new relationship with Iran that we seem to be thinking is more moderate. At the same time, Iran continues to work very hard on the bomb.

ZAHN: So given this climate, where Iran now is involved, at least in this intelligence-gathering effort, against Afghanistan, what can the U.S. do about it?

HERSH: Oh, boy, that's the tough question. One of the things we can do obviously is start -- we're not doing anything right now. We've always maintained a certain amount of pressure on Iran about the Bomb. But of course we didn't have influence. Now I think we're Beginning to get influence because Iran is becoming more moderate. We're hear that all the time. It's leader, the President Hatamya (ph), was visiting at the U.N. and he was talking about -- complaining about Osama bin Laden and joining in the hunt for him. Really, that's one of the things that I think he is doing quite a bit, Iran is helping us find this guy.

And I guess now if we get better relations, I thinks some people think we should pressure them more and more.

We've been working very hard on the Russians, to try and stop them from helping, and the Russians sort of have been playing the sort of now you see it, now you don't game, telling us it's not as bad as you think, the Iranians aren't that close, and what my article focuses on a little bit is the fact that the country left out in all of this is Israel, which of course is targeted still by -- Iran we know supports most of the terrorism, particularly the Hezbollah, that hit the Israelis pretty hard, and they haven't stopped doing that, even though they're playing game with us, but they're still being very tough with the Israelis.

So the Israelis's role in the town about a month or so ago and reminded us again, that we're an old buddy, the Iranians are a new buddy and the Russians are playing sort of a double game, and so it's a very tricky position to be in for the Bush administration, sort of a Hopson's (ph) choice.

ZAHN: In the same article, though, do you also point out the role that Pakistanis have in this nuclear program in Iran. What evidence specifically points to Pakistan's involvement with building up Iran's program?

HERSH: Pakistan, the nuclear program there is headed up by guy named H.U. Khan., who has been sort of the father of the bomb in Pakistan, and we've been watching him, because he did a lot of travel back and forth, with disguises as an alias, et cetera, in North Korea. And we know that Pakistan and North Korea have been working together on missiles, on nuclear technology. And son of a gun, while we were watching it with our intelligence apparatus, we see him hightail it into Tehran and have a meeting at the nuclear facilities, secret facilities we know about, in the country of Iran.

And we see him, we spot him doing this, going to Iran, and we think sharing the information about how to build a bomb, which is very important for a country like Iran, that they will not be able to do much testing, because we are watching them very closely on that. So Pakistan influence, a notion that the head of the nuclear program in Pakistan suddenly shows in Iran, sent a very distinct chill through the community, intelligence community here.

ZAHN: I'd like to share with audience a chilling quote from your piece in this weeks "New Yorker." You interviewed an American general. This is exactly what he had to tell you: "We'll tell the Pakistanis and the Russians to back off their help for Iran's bomb, but that's chapter two, after we put our boy in a body bag."

Did what the general said surprise you at all?

HERSH: No. It's just a very clear, succinct definition of our policy today, which is we are very focused on a very tactical goal, which is getting rid of bin Laden. Meanwhile, we have a very strategic problem, which is fundamentalism and the people that hate America around the world. The problem that I and other people think is that there's nothing wrong with getting rid of bin Laden, we're not suggesting otherwise, the faster the better, but don't think it's going to solve the bigger problem we have of dealing with people that don't like us.

ZAHN: Final question to you this morning. How do you suspect the American government will continue to deal with this extremely delicate balancing act?

HERSH: I think that they're going to have to -- I hope -- what they say, again, in public doesn't matter. In private, we're going to have to start leaning on the Iranians. I quote a U.N. diplomat who is very close to the Iranians, as saying, look, they've been playing a tricky game. They keep on talking about how they love peace, and they want to join the world's community and they want to be more moderate; they've got to stop building the Bomb. It's up to Iran to back off themselves. And we have to pressure them. It's doesn't have to be in public, but I think we have to start leaning harder than we have.

ZAHN: Well, thank you for putting this all into perspective for us this morning. Your article does that as well in this week issue of The "New Yorker."

Seymour Hersh, good to have your insights.

HERSH: Thank you.

ZAHN: Thank you.

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