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American Morning

As Taliban Rule Appears to be Ending, Will Women Find Freedom to Lead?

Aired November 27, 2001 - 07:45   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And we're back at just about 15 minutes or 17 minutes before the hour. One of the enduring images from Afghanistan is that of Afghan women covered head to toe in burkas. As the Taliban rule appears to be ending, women are already finding more freedom, but will that include the freedom to lead?

That is one issue on the table at the U.N. meeting now underway near Bonn. Sima Wali is president of Refugee Women in Development. She is one of the few female delegates at the conference. She has just stepped out of those meetings to join us by telephone. Sima, can you give us an update on what has happened so far today?

SIMA WALI, PRESIDENT OF REFUGEE WOMEN IN DEVELOPMENT: Well we've had some process discussion among the various groups that are represented here, the four groups and so far, I'm very hopeful and I'm actually very pleased that we have women delegates and our views are taken seriously to consideration and basically my point here is to ensure that I represent Afghan women's voices and the many women that I work with on the ground have requested that I actually relay their message in this peace talk and these peace talks that are taking place over the next few days.

ZAHN: Sima, exactly what are you asking for - for the women of Afghanistan?

WALI: Well basically the fact that we really need to restore the rights that were taken away from Afghan women - that Afghan women must have the choice to live free from terror; from hunger; from poverty; and more importantly that Afghan women, because they constitute the majority of the Afghan civil society, they must be included at the table where peace is being negotiated and where we are discussing the reconstruction rebuilding Afghanistan.

ZAHN: And how optimistic are you that any woman will play a key role in that process?

WALI: I am very optimistic because I have been very warmly received here. My views are taken very seriously into consideration. For example, right now I have been asked to sit - to help draft the resolutions with regard to reconstruction and development, and the fact that women are represented at this delegation.

ZAHN: All right Sima, if you'd be kind enough to stand by, I want to turn now to Gloria Steinem who's joining us in our New York studio this morning for her perspective on the future of women in Afghanistan. She, of course, is founder of "Ms. Magazine". Welcome.

GLORIA STEINEM, CO-FOUNDER OF MS. MAGAZINE: Thank you.

ZAHN: What are your thoughts as you hear Sima talk about what she is reaching for? We know according to a human rights watch report released just last month that up to 90 percent of young Afghan girls are illiterate.

STEINEM: Well first of all I feel very proud that Sima Wali is there, and I believe there are about five other women on the delegation as well. I know they're very concerned about also representing women who are in Afghanistan as well as those leaders who have been refugees.

It's a great victory that they're there. I think we shouldn't slide over that because actually the people who are there have surpassed what the Bush administration was willing to push for or to guarantee ironically. And also there's going to be another meeting in Brussels on December 4th and 5th, at which there will be about a third of the women who have come directly from Afghanistan, and this will be the women's meeting. So I think we can feel really good about what's happening so far.

ZAHN: The politics aside, what are the challenges within a country, when you know that Sima just reported that obviously women make up the majority of the population. They at one time made up what 80 - 75 percent of the teachers in Afghanistan were women. That isn't the case anymore.

STEINEM: No and ...

ZAHN: What is the biggest challenge?

STEINEM: ... well it's a huge - I mean right now they're being bombed by us, which makes it extremely difficult for them to - I mean we made a choice basically between our troops and endangering the civilian population by bombing, so we have to face that fact. That bombing needs to stop.

We need massive aid -- a kind of Marshal Plan, for Afghanistan in order to get them out of the situation of abandonment, which is really what happened after the Soviet government - Soviet sponsored government and the Soviets were defeated and we just sort of walked away and left them with an impoverished embattled country full of landmines and so we can't do that again.

I hope that we have finally figured out that there are no borders, you know, in this world. You know, that we are affected by what goes on ...

ZAHN: I don't want to get off on a tandem here, but you said the bombing has to stop. Are you implying that the United States never should have bombed Afghanistan in retaliation for what happened on September 11th? (CROSSTALK)

STEINEM: Well there is B-52 carpet undistinguished bombing, which is very different from focused bombing for particular Taliban headquarters.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: So you're not saying the U.S. should never have retaliated at all? It's just the particular type of bombing ...

(CROSSTALK)

STEINEM: We should consider Afghanistan a concentration camp and what's appropriate to do is what's appropriate in a concentration camp. You take the captors away, but you don't continue to damage the people who are living in the camp.

ZAHN: All right Gloria, I know Sima has been listening - she wants to jump in here. A final thought this morning Sima about your challenges ahead in Bonn and in Brussels (INAUDIBLE) down the road.

WALI: The challenge is great, but we have come here with an open heart and an open mind and as women we have already created cross linkages with the other delegations and I'm hopeful that we as women will come together around a common point to ensure that women are protected and women have a very important role in the rebuilding Afghanistan.

And I'm also very involved in helping and organize the conference of Afghan women, the Brussels conference that Gloria Steinem just referred to. I was quite concerned to - about where the Rabbini government stood and also I needed to get a statement from the former king of Afghanistan. So I'm pleased to say that in a matter of 48 hours, we got the statement from Rome that was very positive, very committed, and the former king actually reminded us of his stand of protecting and promoting the rights of women and from Rabbini - this is an unprecedented and historic statement.

He signed the statement himself giving us his guarantee that he is - he recognizes the important role that women have played in (INAUDIBLE) and really providing the services - critically needed human services that normally a government provides. It has women who have taken over that role to provide these services. So his statement is that he recognizes that of women and assures that he will actually support the role of women at the highest decision making level.

So we are very (INAUDIBLE) about those statements and will hold the leadership accountable if these statements are not actually adhered to.

ZAHN: All right Sima Wali, thanks for your time and I've got five seconds left. You share the same sense of optimism about what lies ahead.

STEINEM: Well we don't know. We have to fight all the time and we have to make sure that our government puts aid through the women- led groups in Afghanistan, which they are not currently doing. It would get the aid more efficiently distributed and it would strengthen those groups.

ZAHN: Gloria Steinem, it's good of you to drop by.

STEINEM: Thank you.

ZAHN: Thank you for your time as well this morning.

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