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American Morning

The Big Question: What Will Happen to Taliban Defectors?

Aired November 27, 2001 - 08:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: With each advance by the Northern Alliance In Afghanistan, the number of Taliban defectors grows. From Mazar-e Sharif and Kabul, to Jalalabad and Konduz, Taliban soldiers in huge numbers have signed on with the enemy. Now, while it may be hard for people in the United States to understand, shifting allegiances in Afghanistan are keys to survival, and it's been that way for centuries.

What will happen to Taliban defectors? Thomas Gouttierre is the director of the Center for Afghan Studies at the University of Nebraska at Omaha.

Welcome, my father's alma mater I thought I'd point out here this morning.

So, professor, explain to us why these fighters seem to be so malleable. Why would a Taliban soldier, other than obviously being threatened to have his life extinguished, switch sides?

THOMAS GOUTTIERE, CENTER FOR AFGHAN STUDIES: Well, we have two kinds here. We have the Taliban who are of course from Afghanistan itself, and as you know, most of those have switched sides because they see this all as a struggle for survival, and they're experts at this. They were probably not as deeply committed to the Al Qaeda network and the relationship it had with the Taliban as perhaps Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar believed.

On the other hand, you have the Taliban fighters who are from other countries, and they were there trying to impose upon Afghanistan the status of being a base for terrorism, and also as a base for trying to create an extremist Islamic state of a perverted nature. They've lost those particular struggles, and for them, perhaps the only thing left to do is to fight. They fight perhaps to obtain what they believe might be their internal reward.

I think in that particular case, they are going to be disappointed with the reward itself as well.

ZAHN: And in your judgment, what constitutes that reward?

GOUTTIERE: Well, I mean, I think they believe they will go to heaven as fighters, and I think, you know I think, again, they have a perverted sense of what is Islam. And I think they've been led down the garden path by people like Osama bin Laden and others. ZAHN: Now we have made it quite clear in our reporting here at CNN that some of the Taliban defectors have been welcomed openly by the Northern Alliance, others tortured and killed. What are the kinds of judgments these Northern Alliance troops are making upon the defections?

GOUTTIERE: Well, I think those of course that are coming over are those who, again, are the ones, like I described earlier, who believe that, you know, it's time for them to go back and be a part of the parts of Afghanistan from once they hale, knowing that this particular battle has been lost.

For those that are executed by the Northern Alliance, some of those, I think are likely from this group of foreigners, who have been fighting against the, you know, the Northern Alliance, and who are unwilling to, you know, surrender and turn themselves over.

For those who are being executed, though, who are being executed and not a part of a battle, I think we need to follow up, and the United States with the Northern Alliance, keep pressing on issues relating to human right's violations and the observance of the normal international rules, you know, relating to wartime, and I think we need to press that at the talks in Bonn, as well as on the ground in Afghanistan.

These are very, very important issues that the Afghans need to be reminded of on a continuum.

ZAHN: As these meetings are under way in Bonn, there is a great deal of discussion about what this post-Taliban government should look like. Do you see a role for any of these Taliban defectors in either a temporary government or a permanent governor that will replace this interim government?

GOUTTIERE: I don't see any -- in particularly the guise of being a Taliban movement. I think the Taliban movement by the end of the war inside Afghanistan will be spent, and it will be perhaps some of these individuals who have gone back to their regional areas, might have some role in the future emerging through their normal traditional and tribunal elements, but you've got to remember that most of the people are clerics, and they are not those that really subscribe much to the traditional, tribal forms of governance in Afghanistan. So perhaps they will not really have much of a avenue for being involved in the future as some are suggesting.

ZAHN: Professor Gouttiere, thank you for joining us. I might imagine that your class is quite popular now, in this post-September 11th environment we're living in. Is enrollment up in your classes.

GOUTTIERE: My class is always popular, you know.

ZAHN: That's the way you need to think. You keep those kids coming to those class.

Thank you, professor. Appreciate your time.

GOUTTIERE: You bet you.

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