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American Morning

Buchanan Disagrees With Offer of Visas In Exchange for Terrorist Information

Aired November 30, 2001 - 08:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Pat Buchanan ran for president in 1996. One of his main issues was immigration and how open the U.S. borders were. Well, for economic and security reasons, he was calling for measures to make it harder for immigrants to enter the country. Buchanan's call to close the borders seemed to some to be extreme at the time. But what about now? Let's ask him.

Pat Buchanan joins us now from Washington -- welcome. I haven't had a chance to talk to you since I joined CNN -- welcome.

PAT BUCHANAN (REF.), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I saw you in your previous incarnation, Paula -- welcome (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ZAHN: That is right. I like this new incarnation very much. So, Pat, I wanted you to react to some of what the president had to say, when he was defending this proposal that John Ashcroft also set forth yesterday. Let's listen to what the president has to say.

BUCHANAN: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will apply the immigration laws. We are interviewing people on a voluntary basis. We're saying welcome to America. You've come to our country. Why don't you help make us safe? Why don't you share information with us?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: The president argues, of course, that these immigrants can help in the war on terrorism. Do you think they can?

BUCHANAN: Well, let me say, Paula, first, I agree with the president on the military tribunals, which is deeply controversial. I think it's a strong position and correct.

I have to say I disagree with that statement. If the president is talking about people who came here illegally, I do not believe that they ought to be bribed or paid off with the honor and privilege of American citizenship simply for helping us in a criminal investigation. I would turn that around and say if you here and you don't belong here and you are illegal and you came from a country that harbors terrorism, we want your cooperation or we're going to send you back home on the first plane.

Citizenship is an honor and a privilege, and I don't think we ought to use it as a bribe or a payoff for people who are aware of terrorist conduct but won't cooperate.

ZAHN: Let's move on to what the attorney general had to say yesterday as well, in defense of this immigration program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Non-citizens are often ideally situated to observe the precursors to, or early stages, of terrorist activity. Information of such activity is critically important to our war against terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So what would be your suggestion if you find out that...

BUCHANAN: Paula...

ZAHN: ... someone is here illegally, and they might give you some valuable information?

BUCHANAN: Paula, I find that statement astounding. What the attorney general is saying is non-citizens, who are here in this country illegally, are privy to information about terrorism. That tells you that we've got communities in this country where terrorism against America is being plotted. The government of the United States doesn't know about it, but illegal aliens do. What that says is we have lost control of our country.

Now, I don't believe we ought to rectify that by offering bribery of our citizenship, the tremendous honor and privilege to illegal aliens, who would not otherwise come forward. For heavens sakes, I think (UNINTELLIGIBLE) respect the president has done a magnificent job in this war. I agree with his military tribunals, but the administration seems to have one foot pre-September 11, and one foot post-September 11.

We have to realize we are at war; 4,000 of our members of our family have been murdered in our own home. And people who have walked into that house illegally, from the same countries, ought to be collared, information demanded, and kicked down the stairs if they won't cooperate. I don't understand this approach. I prefer -- frankly, I prefer the tougher Ashcroft-Bush approach.

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this: I think the government has pretty much acknowledged that they know there is cells -- there are sleeper cells in the United States, and we've even heard certain cities pointed out where there is a base of operations. So I want to make sure I understand fully what you're saying. You're saying on one hand, the government isn't acknowledging that?

BUCHANAN: Well, no, the government clearly acknowledges that now, but I think the procedure of holding out a bribe of citizenship, in exchange for people who might be thugs and criminals and associates to come forward, is false. We ought to bribe them with money, if we have to. We ought to threaten them, and we ought to remove them from the country if they are associated with these terrorist cells.

But the fundamental point, Paula, is what are all of these cells doing in America? I do believe if we had controlled our borders, and if we had shut down immigration as I had recommended, we would not have this problem. In World War II...

ZAHN: No, wait. How can you say that, Pat? How can you say that?

BUCHANAN: All right, I'll tell you why I say that.

ZAHN: I mean, these hijackers were all here on illegal visas.

BUCHANAN: Look, Paula, I say that because we had a tough immigration policy from 1924 all the way up to World War II. Not a single act of terrorism against American citizens in the 48 states took place in the United States during four years of war with Nazi Germany and Japan. Nazis tried to put saboteurs ashore. They were caught immediately, because we were sure of who was here, and who didn't belong here. When you've got -- we have now between 7 and 11 million illegals wandering around this country; 500,000 more come every year. That is a nation that has lost control of its borders.

You know, General Eisenhower, when he came into office, first year, he had a program called Operation Wetback. Every illegal was kicked out of the country unceremoniously. Eisenhower was not a xenophobe or a nativist. He was concerned about the security of the American family, and I think that President Bush is, John Ashcroft is. I just wouldn't offer this bribe of citizenship to these people.

ZAHN: All right. So here's what I still don't get about what you're saying. These hijackers had illegal visas. How could any change in immigration policy three or four years ago have prevented them from doing what they did?

BUCHANAN: Well, what...

ZAHN: Isn't there always a way around this system?

BUCHANAN: But what the point here -- the point here is, and Ashcroft makes this point, is this: The illegal alien communities are the sea in which these fish swim. If the sea is not there, the fish can't swim in that sea. And you can run them down. People will know there's a stranger in here, and we don't know what he's doing here. I mean, if you had the control of the visas and the universities and things like this.

There are now, Paula, 250,000 people, I believe, who have been ordered deported we can't find. And this -- the reason for this is open borders. Let me just make this flat statement. Open borders, global free trade, globalization, all of this is inconsistent with a war on terror in which terrorists are operating in 60 countries, many of them western countries. We've got to do one, or we have to do the other.

ZAHN: And we'd love to bring you back to further debate that last issue raised, because we have to move on to another part of the show. Pat Buchanan, good to see you again -- thank you very much for being with us this morning.

BUCHANAN: Good to see you, Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks.

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