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American Morning
Bob Beckel and Cliff May Discuss: Has Israel Gone Too Far?
Aired December 05, 2001 - 09:22 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: More violence in the Middle East, a suicide bombing in Jerusalem this morning follows yesterday's Israeli retaliation for weekend suicide attacks that killed 25 Israeli citizens. Israel attacked Palestinian targets in Gaza and the West Bank and positioned tanks near Yasser Arafat's headquarters. The U.S. says Arafat must act forcefully to bring extremists to justice. But does the escalation of violence mean Israel has given up on Arafat as a partner in peace negotiations? Has Israel gone too far?
Joining us from Washington this morning to sound off on the subject, Bob Beckel, Democratic political strategist and Cliff May, his favorite sparring partner, former communications director for the Republican National Committee.
Welcome back, gentlemen.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: All right, Bob, on the -- Yasser Arafat has said in an interview that because the retaliatory strikes against the Palestinian Authority have been so strong he hasn't even been able to make the kind of arrests he says he's committed to making. Has Israel gone too far here?
BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: I think -- well let me first of all say, I'm not sure that Arafat under the best conditions could arrest, you know, people from Hamas and Hezbollah. I mean I think if he tried to get their leadership, he'd be killed. Israel, I think in fairness to Israel, feel lonely. The bush administration has sort of forgotten about Israel the last year.
Have they gone too far? Yes, in this sense. And it's tough to say this after they lose all these people in a bus, but the fact of the matter is, without Arafat they have nobody to negotiate with, and I think it would be a mistake to drive him away.
ZAHN: And, Cliff, there was actually a suggestion in an unsourced report yesterday that that is not on the top of Ariel Sharon's list and who will replace him?
CLIFF MAY, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR RNC: Oh Look...
ZAHN: That certainly has got to be a part of a calculation, doesn't it? MAY: Well understand if the Israelis wanted to take out Yasser Arafat, they could do it by lunchtime. They're not doing that. What they are doing is sending him a strong message that you've got one more chance.
Look, after the atrocities of September 11, Bush changed American policy with strong bipartisan support. He said we're going after the terrorists and the regimes that harbor the terrorists. And after the atrocities of this weekend against Israeli civilians, the most recent in a very long line, the Israeli government said we're going to follow the Bush policy. We're going to go after the terrorists and we're going to send a message that the regime that is now harboring these terrorists is not necessarily going to be safe.
Don't forget, every inch of land that Arafat governs, he governs because it was given to him by the Israelis under the Oslo Agreement. That was a land for peace deal. Arafat got the land. Israel has not gotten the peace.
ZAHN: In spite of the fact after, not these most recent suicide -- Bob, why are you laughing? You're smiling right now.
BECKEL: I...
ZAHN: You must not of liked something Cliff said.
BECKEL: Well of course, do I ever like anything Cliff says? Once in a while, you know Merry Christmas, something like that, but I -- and lose the beard, Cliff, will you? I mean it's just -- it's not (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this stage.
The Bush administration's policy, I don't -- the Bush administration doesn't have a policy in the Mideast. I mean you know they've let this thing flounder over there and Israel does feel isolated and this thing has escalated. I'm telling you, this is far more -- it could be potentially far more dangerous than Afghanistan ever was.
MAY: Bob is doing what he always loves to do, blaming the Bush administration for everything. The Bush administration has been great on this, I have to say. They have...
BECKEL: Great on Israel?
MAY: Yes. Yes, absolutely. They have understood that Israel has moved to protect itself from Hamas and Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations the same way we've done in Afghanistan and are doing in other countries around the world where the terrorists are operating. And that's very important. They haven't said, oh it's a cycle of violence. They haven't equated protecting yourself from terrorists with terrorism. They haven't said please don't escalate the violence. They understand what Israel is doing, looking for a partner for peace.
It doesn't have one right now in Arafat. We hope Arafat will change. I'm not confident he will. And if Arafat can't do this, if he's -- either can't control the terrorists, then he's irrelevant to the process. And if he can control the terrorists, then he's responsible and deserves to be targeted like any other regime that does that.
BECKEL: You know -- you know, Cliff...
ZAHN: Bob, let me ask you this. Bob, there are some Israelis and then some American Jews who feel that Ariel Sharon could have issued another warning, even though this may not have worked in previous suicide bombings, to say, look, we'll give you three days to, give them -- give them a list of the people they want turned in, to arrest these folks and if you don't do that, then we'll launch a retaliatory strike. Is that -- would that have been a viable idea...
BECKEL: I think it would have been a viable idea...
ZAHN: ... given the fact that it has not necessarily worked in the past?
BECKEL: But Ariel Sharon doesn't know how to do much except for launch military campaigns. I think he's the worst Prime Minister Israel has had in as long as I've been alive.
But you know Cliff says that you know the Bush administration's policy and all that, there haven't been anybody I think above an accountant sent from the United States to Israel in the last year, No. 1. And No. 2, if you're going to do this -- you know you say you'd give a message to Arafat by blowing up his helicopters and dropping missiles in 50 yards from his -- from his compound. I mean that's like me, Cliff, taking you out, breaking every bone in your body, which once in a while is a thought, and saying to you, OK, that was a message, next time you're dead. I mean come on.
MAY: You know...
BECKEL: It was -- it was so obvious.
ZAHN: And, Cliff, you get the final word.
MAY: Paradoxically...
ZAHN: And a brief one at that.
MAY: Paradoxically, what is going on right now could actually help Arafat. Right now Arafat's not afraid of the Americans. We give him money. He's not afraid of the Israelis. They give him land and guns. He's afraid of the terrorists himself, as Bob says. If we take the terrorists out, he may have a chance to make peace, if he really wants to do so. I'm not so sure.
ZAHN: Cliff May, Bob Beckel, always good to have you two duke it out.
MAY: Thanks, Paula.
BECKEL: Thank you. MAY: I'm keeping the beard, by the way.
BECKEL: You should lose it, baby (ph).
ZAHN: Yes, I kind of like it.
MAY: Take a look, you love it?
ZAHN: Beckel's all wrong.
BECKEL: Lose it. Hey listen I've got (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for you, Paula.
ZAHN: Jack, do you like the beard -- the beard? Should Cliff's beard go or not?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I have no opinion on this issue.
BECKEL: No, no, beard gone. Gone, gone, gone, gone, gone.
ZAHN: Jack has no comment.
CAFFERTY: I'm not going to get involved in this. No, I don't have any hair on my head anywhere so it's not relevant...
ZAHN: So he's not going to get into the hair thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you're funny, though, that's a big advantage.
ZAHN: All right, gentlemen, thanks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
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