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American Morning
Richard Butler Analyzes the Afghanistan and Iraq Situations
Aired December 06, 2001 - 07:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: If Kandahar surrenders, it could mark the end of a major part of the war in Afghanistan, but what is next? Well according to today's "Washington Post," 10 leading lawmakers have written to President Bush calling on him to target Iraq next.
Let's turn to our ambassador in residence this morning, Richard Butler, former chief U.N. weapons inspector and now with the Council on Foreign Relations.
Lots of territory to cover this morning -- good morning.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Lots of stuff going on, Paula.
ZAHN: All right, let's try to weed through what these Islamic Press reports are saying.
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: Essentially that their -- the beleaguered Taliban chief Mullah Mohammed Omar is about to surrender Kandahar, a report that the U.S. government is looking at...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... with a great deal of skepticism.
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: They said they hope this is true.
BUTLER: Yes, let's hope it's true. And...
ZAHN: And then what next?
BUTLER: Well there's some idea that he's been talking to the guy who will be head of the interim government in Afghanistan asking for amnesty.
ZAHN: Well that's ridiculous.
BUTLER: I mean Omar asking for amnesty. Stop me before I do it again. I mean what is this? This is the man who brutalized that country. Remember the stuff about women, what he did to women? Well what's he saying, forgive me, I won't do it again? I mean...
ZAHN: Well the question I have...
BUTLER: ... this is just too silly for words, you know.
ZAHN: Well the U.S. government has made it very clear that they are opposed to any kind of amnesty, not for him -- not only for him but other Taliban members and this new head of the interim government, Karzai,...
BUTLER: Karzai, yes.
ZAHN: ... the one you were talking about, he has said in "USA Today" that perhaps -- quote -- "common Taliban will be given amnesty." Now what kind of problem does that create with the U.S. government?
BUTLER: Well, yes, maybe it does. I mean I guess what he means is ordinary foot soldiers. You know people who joined up with the movement probably...
ZAHN: Or were forced to join up.
BUTLER: Yes, or were forced to. But probably, Paula, and this gets to the Bonn agreement on a new government, probably for tribal reasons. Remember Afghanistan has always had these tribal problems. One of the things that's really interesting about Karzai being made head of the interim government is that he is a Pashtun. He's from that big tribe in the south. He's not part of the Northern Alliance group, and that they have permitted that to happen is really important. Pashtuns are important, especially across the border in Pakistan.
ZAHN: Sure.
BUTLER: You know this is all, you know, complex and I think rather creative. What will be interesting will be to see if what the men in suits in Bonn have agreed to will actually be carried out by the men with the guns on the ground in Afghanistan.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the military campaign now. General Don Shepperd said the U.S. obviously can't declare victory once Kandahar falls.
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: You've got to get to Tora Bora, you've got to try to get to all the leadership of the al Qaeda...
BUTLER: Tora Bora with the caves.
ZAHN: ... and potentially Osama bin Laden.
BUTLER: Tora Bora with the caves, caves which, incidentally, we helped build 20-odd years ago. And there's a fascinating report, Paula, that Osama bin Laden was apparently seen in that region, Tora Bora,...
ZAHN: By anti-Taliban...
BUTLER: ... a couple of days ago.
ZAHN: ... factions.
BUTLER: A couple of days ago. So he's there. So if Kandahar falls or is surrendered, whatever, we can now go on, hopefully, and finish the job at Tora Bora.
ZAHN: Now move on to what seems to be the next developing part of this story. It is being reported that 10 leading members of Congress...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... have signed a letter urging President Bush to make Iraq -- the Iraqi regime the next major target...
BUTLER: Big story.
ZAHN: ... in the war on terrorism.
BUTLER: Big story.
ZAHN: What does that mean?
BUTLER: Very big.
ZAHN: How much support for that?
BUTLER: Well, let's look, first of all, who these people are: McCain, Lieberman, Helms, Hyde, Trent Lott, these are truly important people, and they've said to the president of the United States, go for it. Go fix the Iraq problem now. That's enormous political pressure. Add that to what we know is a strong faction within the administration, especially around the Defense Department, saying the same thing...
ZAHN: Who many thought that President Bush dropped that trial balloon about ...
BUTLER: A week ago.
ZAHN: ... two weeks ago...
BUTLER: Yes. Yes. Yes.
ZAHN: ... when in a spontaneous news conference he threw out that angle, that possibility.
BUTLER: I think so. But this is now an additional piece. These are significant lawmakers amongst the most influential in the land and from all parties -- both parties, and they've joined together and said to the president, go fix the Iraq problem now. They've said because, and they're right, Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. So there should be no more, you know, prevarication about that. That's a fact. And they have said that it's better to be done sooner rather than later because it's been too long, let's get on with it, let's do it now.
ZAHN: Are they saying do this even if America's allies abandon us, is that what they're saying or is it clear?
BUTLER: That's what -- that's what we have to explore further. This is -- this is a big deal. This is a big deal. On the ground in military terms, far harder than Afghanistan. Possible consequences in the Arab world and in the coalition, enormous. But let's face it, Paula, this is a democracy, this is an important part of it, key lawmakers are saying to the administration, we will support you, go do this now. We can't wait any longer, this is too important. All I say is watch this space. This is a big deal.
ZAHN: We'll be watching it with you.
BUTLER: OK.
ZAHN: Richard Butler, as always, thanks for your insight.
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: See you same time, same place tomorrow morning.
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