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American Morning

As Pressure on Tora Bora Increases, Can Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar Escape?

Aired December 07, 2001 - 09:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, in Eastern Afghanistan, the hills of Tora Bora have been under intense bombardment. CNN's Brent Sadler has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have seen some of the heaviest U.S. bombing against al Qaeda positions in the Tora Bora range of mountains south of Jalalabad. Airstrikes have been continuing, pouring into those positions throughout most of this day. Now, we're getting reports from commanders on the ground that these airstrikes are having some very punishing effects on al Qaeda movements, and over the past 24 hours, we've been able to see the anti-Taliban Afghan tribal forces making some small gains against al Qaeda positions, claiming to have moved through the first line of defense.

Now, we've also seen what appears to be the deployment of a Special Forces unit in an area leading up to Tora Bora. About a week ago, commanders of the anti-Taliban forces in Jalalabad were confirming there were as many as 20 U.S. Special Forces, or U.S. personnel on the ground in this region. They wouldn't say which branch of the military from, but certainly said they were here. We were also told by tank commanders on the ground that they were not coordinating U.S. airstrikes with ground operations.

But we've certainly seen group of gunmen, certainly not Afghans. They were accompanied by guides and with pack animals taking equipment up towards Tora Bora and, quite clearly, separate from the main activity in the air in the form of heavy U.S. bombing and on the ground in the form of tribal warrior offensives against those complexes of tunnels and caves leading up to and on top of the mountain range called Tora Bora.

One other important piece of information. Villagers who have been running away from areas where there has been sustained and heavy bombing, say that there are reports that al Qaeda fighters have been trying to pay people money to dig graves for as many as 100 of al Qaeda people who appear to have been killed in these bombing attacks. So significant changes on the ground in the past 24 hours, but this is going to be slow progress, a formidable challenge for these ground forces, even though they are supported by U.S. airstrikes, to take Tora Bora. Brent Sadler, CNN, Agam, in the White Mountains of Eastern Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Is it possible that Osama bin Laden has already escaped from that complex of caves and tunnels? Joining me now from Little Rock, Arkansas is CNN Military Analyst General Wesley Clark. Good morning. Always good to see you at this hour.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Morning, Paula.

ZAHN: So, General, we're going to quickly bring our audience up to date on one little fact that was in the "New York Times." The new man who will become the defense minister of this interim government in Afghanistan claims his sources have told him that Osama bin Laden is definitely in Tora Bora, and that he will remain there if he thinks he can successfully hide. However, if he feels too much pressure from the U.S., he's going to head for the porous borders of Pakistan. Any reaction?

CLARK: That's a -- I think that's a very, very consistent with everything we know of Osama bin Laden. We is going to want to stay there. He's going to want to draw forces in. He's going to want to try to make our American forces pay a price for coming after him, but when he sees the inevitability of his defeat, then he's going to try to elude us to be able to fight again another day.

ZAHN: And what can Pakistan do about that? What can the U.S. do about that? Those borders -- doesn't everybody acknowledge, are porous?

CLARK: They do acknowledge that, but even though the entire border may be porous, Pakistan has a very substantial military, it does have police, it can deploy forces and has deployed forces into those areas. And I would hope that, at this very moment, we have a military operation working inside Pakistan, with the Pakistanis, that is working in the reverse direction to encircle Tora Bora and cut off possible escape routes.

ZAHN: How concerned are you this morning about these other reports that Mullah Omar is on the run? And missing?

CLARK: I think we should all be concerned about this. It's too early to say that he's going to get away. We don't have enough people on the ground. We couldn't tell whether he's in Kandahar still. He could be sitting in own home in Kandahar, for all we know. He just didn't show up in and turn himself in, as I read the reports.

But, it does point out the difficulty of an operation such as we've run, because we're really relying on the people on the ground with very limited support from the United States, very limited U.S. presence to prosecute this campaign with -- very reliant on U.S. airpower. And the problem is, when you get to this stage in the conflict, you don't have your own eyes on the ground. You don't have your own people.

We can't physically block every road, search every car, encircle every village, search every home to see if Mullah Omar is in there. He has got to be turned in by local people, but the local people, who were his team and his supporters until he surrendered, are -- he still has relationships there. These people know each other, they are inter connected, and so it's going to really be a challenge for the new government to assert its authority, and really show that it can take charge and bring Mullah Omar to justice.

ZAHN: But, we both have to make it quite clear, today, that this new government hasn't given a clear signal about what it intends to do with Mullah Omar if they find him.

CLARK: That's exactly right, and this is another matter in this campaign. The actions of Osama bin Laden, supported by Mullah Omar, are gross violations of international law. This is the kind of action that we brought genocide charges against Slobodan Milosevic for. He's in the Hague right now, standing trial, and, no nation can support someone who has been internationally indicted, and I hope that we'll bring international indictments against Mullah Omar, and Osama bin Laden, and the rest just as rapidly as we can, so we have the full weight of international law and we close off possible legal loopholes and make it impossible for any government to provide any assistance to these people.

ZAHN: I have a sheer political question for you this morning. You know, the polls, by and large, show that Americans support what's being done in Afghanistan right now, but let's say after billions of dollars worth of money pumped into Afghanistan, and the war, and in rebuilding, and somehow you don't bring Mullah Omar to justice, how does that compromise a long campaign against the war on terrorism? Americans aren't going to be too happy if, somehow, Mullah Omar escapes to wherever. Whether he heads to Monacco (ph), or whereever the heck he heads, and spends the rest of his life in what he calls, you know, a sense of dignity, is -- which, I guess, is what he says he wants these days.

CLARK: It's a real problem, and the administration, our military leaders have known this challenge would be there from the beginning. Everyone has said the first steps were easy. We brought the weight of airpower in. We collapsed the regime. That was the first objective. We've made it impossible for the al Qaeda network to use Afghanistan as a base. Now is the really tough part. We've got to go after the terrorist cells, cell by cell, individual by individual, in Afghanistan, as well as around the world in 50-60 countries. It's going to take a lot persistence and cooperation from allies and friends.

ZAHN: General Clark, as always, good to cover so much territory with you this morning, have a great weekend.

CLARK: Thank you Paula, you too.

ZAHN: See you back here next week.

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