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American Morning
Richard Butler Analyzes Tales from Iraqi Defector
Aired December 20, 2001 - 07:36 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Yesterday on our program, Richard Butler, our ambassador in residence, told us that today he'd bring us surprising revelations from an Iraqi defector. Well today, "The New York Times" has this on its front page.
So, Mr. Ambassador, you knew about this yesterday. You gave us some of the details. What is the most important thing for Americans to understand about this Iraqi defector and what he has told investigators?
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Paula, it's a massive story. First and foremost, it's authentic. That's the most important thing to understand about it.
ZAHN: You have no doubts...
BUTLER: I have no doubt at all.
ZAHN: ... that this -- that these accounts are true?
BUTLER: The place names, the technical details, the organizations he worked for, the way he was hired. He didn't have to bid for any of these Iraqi government contracts, they just said you do our work, we'll pay you handsomely. His lifestyle, the amount of money he had, the sort of house he lived in. Paula, I could go on and on.
Point one, this is authentic. What does it tell us? Saddam Hussein attaches major importance to biological weapons and chemical weapons, you know, are highly important as well. And this guy shows that in that period when there hasn't been inspection the last three years, Saddam has been doing it again, including building under the Saddam General Hospital in Baghdad, under the hospital, a laboratory for the manufacture of chemical and biological weapons.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: So in other words, you can never bomb a hospital.
BUTLER: Well this is -- this is truly slimish behavior. I mean should anyone be surprised. But, yes, how could you go bomb that facility to take out the weapons facility if it's under a hospital? I mean he's using patients in a hospital as hostages.
ZAHN: Well he's been known to use human shields...
BUTLER: It's extraordinary.
ZAHN: ... everywhere.
BUTLER: Yes.
ZAHN: So this Iraqi defector, to put this into context,...
BUTLER: Right. Right.
ZAHN: ... claims to have worked in this weapons program as recently as a year ago.
BUTLER: That's the other thing, authenticity No. 1. No. 2, currency. This is current information. This guy got out just six months ago. What he was telling -- what he has told us about Saddam's weapons programs is real time now. It's the most up-to-date information and confirmation that we've had for a while of what we've deeply suspected that he's back in the biological and chemical business big time.
ZAHN: He has also confirmed something you've told us many times here on this broadcast that once an inspection was done there were alternative sites where all of this stuff was moved to.
BUTLER: It's so familiar to me, Paula. It was the biggest shell game in history. You know that game, find the pea under one of three shells, you know, one, two, three. They just moved this stuff around the country when they thought we were coming to look for it.
One of the little bits of information in his report that I found fascinating was that he confirmed that they always knew when we were coming. Now I deeply suspected that, that they were listening to our messengers and/or they had people planted in our organization who leaked to the Iraqis what our plans were, but he's confirmed that. He said that, he actually used my name, he said they always knew when Butler was coming.
ZAHN: We have 30 second left, tell our audience, because I think they'll find this story stunning, what happened when you confronted Tariq Aziz at one point and said we know...
BUTLER: Oh yes.
ZAHN: ... you are hiding weapons here, come clean.
BUTLER: Absolutely. Remember two and a half months ago on this show you interviewed him and he looked you in the eye and said we have no such weapons. They were all destroyed -- none.
ZAHN: And I said if that's -- I said if that's true, why don't you prove it by holding inspections?
BUTLER: This guy...
ZAHN: Not necessary, he said.
BUTLER: This guy -- this guy just lies through his teeth. And there was a moment in Baghdad where in private, you know, I said to him, you have lied to the world, Mr. Aziz about your biology program, to the Security Council, to the world. He -- and what did he do? He just shrugged his shoulders and said so. And this defector is yet further confirmation of the truth. They had these weapons. They're making them again, including under Baghdad Central Hospital.
ZAHN: We want you to come back tomorrow and tell us how these latest revelations might affect the decision when to go in Iraq. I guess everybody's saying it's when now and not if.
BUTLER: I guess so.
ZAHN: All right, Richard Butler,...
BUTLER: OK.
ZAHN: ... thanks so much...
BUTLER: See you tomorrow.
ZAHN: ... for your insights.
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