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American Morning

Pakistani Troops Patrol Border; Marines in Tora Bora

Aired December 21, 2001 - 09:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Armed Pakistani troops are patrolling the mountainous terrain along their border with Afghanistan this morning. They are looking for al Qaeda fighters who escaped custody in a violent revolt earlier this week, and for other al Qaeda members trying to escape Afghanistan. CNN's Kamal Hyder has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAMAL HYDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Behind me you can see the mountain -- Spin (ph) mountain range which connects to Tora Bora mountain range. This is very jagged-edge country, and where I'm sitting is the tip of what you would call the Palisbeak (ph) region. It is a land jutting into Afghanistan and with the Spin (ph) mountains going around them. So we are sitting at the edge, literally, on the Pakistan-Afghanistan boundary, and this is the area which is now being patrolled by forces of the Pakistan army and the paramilitary forces.

And it is very hard work here, because of the jagged country here, big falls (ph), and some of these soldiers have had to be lifted by choppers and put on high positions where it was difficult to have access. They are patrolling the narrow ravines, trying to block off as much territory as possible, and as one officer put it, he said "we're on war footing."

We spoke to quite a few people here who told us that it was their own army and, therefore, it was their own country that was at stake, and they said they would cooperate with their army. Morale here was very good. People were not particularly perturbed. They said that Afghanistan has been at war for 23 years. We do not want to have war, and we don't want Afghanistan to have this continuing war. They said we would not give them a safe haven here. There are some people who may have sympathies with these people, and that is because these people may be portrayed as heroes, but overall, the perception here is that they must cooperate with the army, and they must try to cooperate with the international community.

ZAHN: That was Kamal Hyder, reporting from along the Pakistani- Afghanistan border.

Step by step, cave by cave, there are reports that some 500 U.S. Marines will begin searching caves in the Tora Bora region of Eastern Afghanistan this weekend. U.S. officials say Osama bin Laden could be hiding in one of them. Joining us now from Chicago, CNN Military Analyst General David Grange. Good to see you, sir. BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: All right. Explain to us what kind of training these Marines have to do this cave clearing operation.

GRANGE: Well, I believe that the Marines have training in the mountainous areas. This force, I understand, has been through some mountainous training. You know the commander, General Franks has many options. He can use Marines, he can use soldiers. We have the 10th Mountain Division soldiers in Uzbekistan and in Afghanistan as well. They're very well trained at mountain warfare. The cave operations, they're tough. It's like subterranean operations in cities where you're going into subways, sewer systems, any kind of restricted, compartmentalized structures below the ground. Very dangerous, very tough work.

ZAHN: In Vietnam, the Viet Kong, obviously, built pretty extensive tunnels in the southern part of that country. Are these tunnels different?

GRANGE: I believe these tunnels -- of course, they're, you have -- they're constructed out of rock. A little tougher material than we experienced in Vietnam in many cases. You know, in Vietnam a lot of the tunnels, not only were they underground, but they were dug in a lot of times by river banks in the mud, but still very dangerous as well. These are probably a little bit more sophisticated, and -- but the situation with encountering booby traps, mines, the overpressure concerns when explosions go off are still the same.

ZAHN: And, of course, the other challenge is that many of these remaining caves are above the snow line. What kind of special equipment will the Marines, if they are the ones that ultimately do this, will have to use?

GRANGE: Yeah, I think whether it be Marines or soldiers, one of the challenges is going to be having sufficient engineers. Combat engineers are experts at this kind of operation, excavating any kind of bunkers that have been destroyed or fighting complexes like these caves and networks. And they're also good at demining, and you want a force that not only can find, can perform the reconnaissance and find these caves, but also excavate properly the rubble and any kind of mines that may be in the area. Engineers would be ideal, both Marine engineers or Army engineers, to do this.

ZAHN: A little bit earlier on, you described to us how sophisticated these networks of tunnels are, and I'll tell you, when you look at these pictures, it's mind boggling, you know, just how much manual labor is required to work through them. How long could this process take?

GRANGE: You know, this is just the Tora Bora area. I mean, it could take years. If you went through all the complexes in some on the hostile areas in Afghanistan that we're concerned with, it will take a long time. This is a technique used around the world now by many of our adversaries or potential adversaries. I'll tell you, North Korea are experts at using caves, using underground complexes to launch rockets or artillery or hide tanks, and they share -- a lot of these countries share this information. They share some of the engineer expertise to create them, and I know that we have probably exploited some of this intelligence from the engineers that have built these caves and others around the world that would help our forces to take down these sites.

ZAHN: I need a brief answer to this one. Do you think there is any way Osama bin Laden is still in one of the caves in Tora Bora?

GRANGE: Well, hopefully his body is in there from one of the strikes, and they can recover that body, and with DNA or other means prove that it is bin Laden. Hopefully he has not slipped away, but time will tell.

ZAHN: We're all hoping you're right. General David Grange, thank you so much for your time. If we don't see you before Christmas, Merry Christmas to you and your family.

GRANGE: Same to you.

ZAHN: Take care.

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