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American Morning
Richard Butler Speaks on Bin Laden Tape and Iraq Weapons
Aired December 21, 2001 - 07:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Lots to talk about with our ambassador in residence this morning. We have a new story from a different Iraqi defector and the latest look at the bin Laden tapes.
Richard Butler, former U.N. chief weapons inspector, now of the Council on Foreign Relations, joins me once again -- good morning.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the report we had earlier on this morning that says for whatever the reason, whether the government missed some information on this tape or chose to leave it out, there are a lot of questions being asked about the translation that most of the world saw.
BUTLER: Paula, this is deeply disappointing. Such efforts were made to show the world that this was authentic, that's why we saw this silly tape where the dinner begins in the middle, then you get these outdoor picnic scenes, then you get the beginning of the dinner at the end. It would have been tempting to put it in its right order but no, no, no, no, this was to show that we didn't doctor it at all, that it was authentic. And now this. Now we discover either because of a conspiracy or a snafu, some vital information is not there. It is deeply disappointing.
ZAHN: Senator Lieberman was a guest just moments ago, and he said it's possible that some of this information could have missed -- been missed, but he found that hard to believe. And he said that Congress would love to hear an explanation from...
BUTLER: I think we...
ZAHN: ... the administration about why this happened. Is there an innocent explanation for this? You know how the last time we saw the Egypt air stuff try to be translated,...
BUTLER: Yes.
ZAHN: ... there was -- there were a lot of conflicts there.
BUTLER: I certainly hope so, Paula, that's why I say -- you know there's an old rule in politics, when something unexplainable happens, you've got a choice, was it because of a conspiracy or a snafu? I hope it's the latter.
ZAHN: Where was the conspiracy here, Richard,...
BUTLER: I hope it was innocent.
ZAHN: ... if there is one?
BUTLER: Well because in the tape it's indicated that there are some clerics in Saudi Arabia referred to who may have been part of September 11, and one of them is a government official. So I don't want to go too far with conspiracy theories, but there you go. It may be it was to protect that, to protect the relationship with the government of Saudi Arabia. I earnestly pray that it was a snafu.
ZAHN: Yesterday, during a news conference, Ari Fleischer, the spokesperson for the president, basically said this is a Department of Defense matter. They're the ones that interpreted it...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... so we'll see if there's any pick up on that a little...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... later on today.
Let's move on to the issue of Iraq. Yesterday, "The New York Times" broke a story that of course you've known about for many, many months suggesting that Iraq is once again not only making chemical weapons...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... but biological weapons as well. I wanted to play for you this morning a small part of an interview I did with Tariq Aziz...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... in -- where he absolutely denied that was going on. This was done two months ago. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Well, I can't speak for the U.S. government. But I can ask you this question, can you tell us unequivocally today that Iraq has no chemical or biological weapons or the ability to deliver...
TARIQ AZIZ, IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Yes.
ZAHN: ... a weapon of mass destruction?
AZIZ: Yes, we don't have. All those materials were inspected, destroyed long ago. And Iraq doesn't have any biological or chemical or weapons, you see, under any means to use them against any country or any place. I say that... ZAHN: If that's...
AZIZ: ... clearly (ph).
ZAHN: If that's the case, Mr. Aziz, why don't you allow inspections and prove that?
AZIZ: Because why they single out Iraq for that. They are spies. There were spies spying not for this purpose, but spying in order to provide information for the American intelligence agencies to eliminate the Iraqi leadership and to attack Iraq and commit aggression against Iraq. That's what they did in the past. And it's not only my view, it's the view even of those people who participated in those kinds of spying on Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So that's the defense you heard over and over and over again.
BUTLER: Paula, in a word, it's a lie. The man is lying. It's as simple as that. And this new defector report shows it.
The new defector report also shows something that I confronted that man with, Tariq Aziz, in Baghdad, mainly that they had tested biological substances on live human beings. We know that they did. I sent the biology inspector to a prison to check the records there because they tested them on prisoners and the mentally ill. The records for the relevant year were the only records missing from the office that day. The Iraqis had taken them away.
Paula, he was lying to you then as he did to us when we were doing our inspections and this defector report proves it.
ZAHN: There is a second report out today in "Vanity Fair" about another Iraqi defector who makes even more alarming charges...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... about some of the Iraqis who failed...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... during training exercises were actually used for target practice.
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: You're going to come back in a minute or two to talk to us right after we interview David Rose who wrote that article...
BUTLER: OK.
ZAHN: ... in "Vanity Fair," and love to hear your feedback on that (ph).
BUTLER: OK, good.
ZAHN: Stand by.
BUTLER: OK.
ZAHN: Thanks.
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