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American Morning

Accusations Fly Between Airline Pilot, Secret Service Agent

Aired January 04, 2002 - 07:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Accusations are flying between an American Airlines pilot and the Secret Service agent that he kicked off his plane Christmas Day. And now witnesses are stepping forward and speaking out about what they saw and heard.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a story of many contradictions, two accounts from parties apparently without a vested interest. Mark Pueschel claims he was sitting in the same row on the American Airlines flight as the Secret Service agent, an Arab- American. He tells CNN he believes the agent was a victim of racial discrimination. "He fit a description and I think he was kicked off because of that."

And Molly Reeve, who claimed she spoke with the agent several times in the terminal says, "I never witnessed any yelling or hostile behavior, as the pilot has alleged." She did not, however, see the agent talking with the pilot.

Meanwhile, lawyers for the agent, Walied Shater, put forward his rendition of events.

JOHN RELMAN, SHATER'S ATTORNEY: Pure and simple, this is a case of discrimination. He was treated in a demeaning manner, as you've heard, a humiliating manner, a rude manner.

MESERVE: The attorneys say during a delay of more than an hour, three different law enforcement officers verified the agent's identity, but the captain would not be satisfied and would not call the Secret Service directly.

The captain, in his account, says he was suspicious because paperwork filled out by the agent to carry his weapon on board was unreadable and missing items. But the agent's lawyers say the problem arose when the agent's first flight was canceled and he was sent to a different gate.

CHRISTY LOPEZ, ATTORNEY FOR SECRET SERVICE AGENT: The American Airlines agent at that gate had no blank forms that he needed to fill out. So the American Airlines agent decided to use one of the forms that he already had and simply crossed out the airport, flight and seat numbers and wrote in the new flight and seat numbers.

MESERVE: The pilot in his account described the agent as very hostile and abusive. Lawyers for the agent say it was the pilot who was rude and unprofessional, and they asked if pilots should have unfettered authority to remove passengers.

RELMAN: The question is if there is no legitimate security risk being posed does a pilot of an American airline, any American airline, have the right to keep someone off of a plane just because he doesn't like the way they look?

MESERVE: On its Web site, American Airlines says these are "frivolous claims of racial profiling." It says its security "guidelines are applied equally among all passengers and the company vigorously resents any suggestion of racial discrimination."

(on camera): The pilot has now filed a complaint with the Secret Service alleging that the agent was confrontational, hostile and argumentative, and he asks that this behavior be addressed before, he says, the agent interferes with another flight crew and compromises security.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: American Airlines has responded to the incident aboard one of its planes on Christmas Day In a statement it says, "American carries out its security obligations according to the guidelines provided by the federal government. Those guidelines are applied equally among all passengers and the company vigorously resents any suggestion of racial discrimination."

Well, pilots aboard commercial planes have been on the alert since the events of September 11, but this case of this agent being removed from this plane does raise some questions. Are pilots engaging in racial profiling?

Well, joining us now is John Relman. He's the attorney for Walied Shater the agent ejected from that flight on Christmas Day We thank you for your time this morning, sir.

JOHN RELMAN, SHATER'S ATTORNEY: A pleasure. Glad to be here.

HARRIS: Well, you know, it seems as though, and I've read the report that the pilot filed as well as the report filed by the SOC, I guess the person in charge of security at the operations center. And in each case it seems as though this whole event could have been avoided had your agent, the agent or your client presented proper forms that were properly filled out. And they gave him three opportunities to fill out these forms properly. Had he done so on any of them, it looks as though this whole thing would have been avoided.

RELMAN: Well, you know, it's interesting. I think that what people are forgetting is that the agent was never told that there was any problem with the paperwork. Instead, what he did was he followed instructions and he provided telephone numbers so that the airline could call and verify that he was the agent that he said he was.

He stood by and waited to see if that would happen and it never did. And, of course, that would have resolved the whole thing in a matter of about 30 seconds.

HARRIS: Well, maybe so, because I'm thinking that, you know, we've seen plenty of movies how these sort of plots have played out and it could have been very easily arranged for him to have someone waiting at any particular telephone number to wait for a telephone call and give, you know, the proper answer for him, whether or not this person actually was with the Secret Service.

RELMAN: Well, you know, these telephone numbers are easily verifiable. You could even call 411 and find out that, in fact, it is the White House switchboard or it is the Secret Service. He had all the proper identification. He had his badge and so forth.

The presumption should have been that he is an agent and that he needs to get to where he's going to protect the president. That's a high priority. It's a national security issue. And this, these agents fly all the time.

It just seems to be inexplicable that the agent would not have verified the number and simply called it or, excuse me, that the pilot would not have done that.

Instead, the issue that's really posed here is where we have pilots who are not trained in security, they don't have procedures that they're following, but they just have a bad feeling about someone. Maybe they don't like the way they look. Should that be a reason to keep someone off the plane? And I think this is a perfect example where a fact says oh, he had some Arabic material with him. Well, it proved to be false...

HARRIS: Well, I want to ask you about that.

RELMAN: ... what the flight attendant said.

HARRIS: Yes, that's one of the curious things that popped up.

RELMAN: Yes.

HARRIS: Because it is in this pilot's report as well. And in his report he says that the flight attendant was the first person to actually complain about him and he said she, that the flight attendant complained about the man's actions, about your client's actions, and then noticed some Arabic looking material sitting next to him. What is that?

RELMAN: You know, that, first of all, that allegation is completely false and the passenger who was sitting next to him has come forward now and quite courageously said that's just completely wrong. But what he had was he had a textbook. He had a college text about Middle East history written in English. So it was clear hysteria on the part of the flight attendant. And again, remember, the only thing that matters is is he an agent? If he is, I want him on my flight. He's going to help protect me and everybody else. He's working for the president. He protects the president's life.

That could have been resolved with a phone call. It never was. He waited an hour and 15 minutes. And the real issue here is why didn't the pilot do it? I think the obvious implication here is the pilot simply looked at him, heard what the flight attendant said, there was no legitimate security risk and simply said I don't like the way this looks and I'm just not going to be budged.

HARRIS: Well, then what was it that he did to tip off or make the flight attendant concerned in the first place?

RELMAN: I don't think he did anything and I think that is the fallacy here. I don't think he did anything at all. He simply sat down. The passenger said he simply sat down and then he was asked to step off.

Now, of course, we don't have any problem with anybody being asked to step off a plane to face, you know, additional questioning. That's something that's acceptable. It's normal. But -- and the agent himself says I understand that they would want to verify my identity. But no one ever said that there's a problem with paperwork. No one ever said we're not going to call these numbers that we've given. And that's where the real rub comes here. That's where we're raising the questions, what is going on here?

And afterwards, if I can just add, afterwards when the supervisor spoke with American Airlines after he was denied boarding, they cleared it up in a matter of a minute.

HARRIS: Well, and let me ask you about that, because in the process of doing that, it was also mentioning that the police were involved here at the airport and that police there are corroborating the pilot's and the flight attendant's assessment of your client's behavior as being unprofessional.

RELMAN: Well, I don't think that's quite correct. I mean first of all, three police officers cleared him to get on the plane and checked his I.D. This is the American Airlines pilot's version of what happened. I've seen no report from these police officers indicating that he was unprofessional.

HARRIS: Well, it was also mentioned in the SOC report...

RELMAN: Another...

HARRIS: ... as well.

RELMAN: Again, that's an American Airlines manager who's simply reporting what the pilot said. This is an hour and 15 minute delay.

HARRIS: No, actually, I'm sorry, but the SOC report, as I read it, I have it here, a copy of it. He says he actually spoke with the ticketing agent. He did not talk with the pilot on this particular matter.

RELMAN: Well, the... HARRIS: And the ticketing agent and the police officer who was with the ticketing agent are the ones who told the SOC that your client was behaving unprofessionally.

RELMAN: Well, again, the ticketing agent is someone who works for American Airlines. But again, I think what's going on here is that the SOC is simply relaying what they're perceiving. But the fact of the matter is that the passengers who were there, the witnesses who observed it, who have no vested interest in this, and of course the pilot is, I'm sure, trying to save his job, the passengers have said there was no hostile behavior of any kind.

And it doesn't make sense. I mean Secret Service agents are trained to be cool under pressure. I mean they face far more difficult circumstances than something like this. He waited an hour and 15 minutes and anyone would understandably be concerned, be perhaps frustrated or irritated about why his credentials were not being properly checked and approved.

He had to get to Crawford, Texas to protect the president. This is a national security issue. And he can't understand why, after an hour and 15 minutes, someone can't call a supervisor, verify that it is a supervisor and say yes, he is an agent, he protects the president, please fly him on the plane. And, indeed, that is what happened after he was kept off the plane.

You know, it just doesn't add up. I think the American Airlines' story just doesn't add up in this unique situation.

HARRIS: Yes, well, we're just beginning our look into this particular story.

We sure do appreciate your time this morning, Mr. Relman.

RELMAN: A pleasure.

HARRIS: And, of course, we will be watching to see how this case plays out.

RELMAN: Thank you very much for having me.

HARRIS: All right. Take care.

Coming up next hour, we're going to be speaking with Mark Pueschel, who is the man who was sitting next to agent Walied Shater on that American Airlines flight and we're going to find out why he thinks that Shater was actually a victim of racial discrimination and we'll get a firsthand account of what happened inside that plane, so stay with us.

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