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American Morning
Is the U.S. Effort to Root Out Terrorists Going Beyond Defeat of Al Qaeda and Bin Laden?
Aired January 07, 2002 - 07:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: American war planes are due to start arriving this week at a new air base in Kyrgyzstan. At the same, the U.S. is stepping up efforts at monitoring shipping in and out of Somalia. Is the U.S. effort to root out terrorists going beyond the defeat of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden? Or is it part of a broader strategy?
Joining us now is Richard Butler, former chief U.N. weapons inspector. He is now on the Council on Foreign Relations our ambassador in residence.
Do you like your new welcome music?
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think it's fine.
ZAHN: Is it fitting for a king?
BUTLER: This is truly, Paula -- it's really a great development.
ZAHN: Good.
BUTLER: And I predict to you that people will start calling this a.m. (ph).
ZAHN: Good.
BUTLER: Good.
ZAHN: I hope you're right.
BUTLER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ZAHN: Let's talk a little bit about the significance of this air base building -- being built in Kyrgyzstan. First of all, how are China and Russia going to react to a long-time commitment of U.S. forces there potentially?
BUTLER: Well, differently. In the case of Russia, I think we're in good -- in a good situation. They are on board with the war against terrorism, partly for their own reasons -- you know, the Chechen situation. And I think, too, that we're coming to an agreement with Russia about the future of oil. That's the word that I would use in this context, Paula -- oil.
ZAHN: Because of the oil in Kyrgyzstan?
BUTLER: That's right.
ZAHN: How much oil are we talking about?
BUTLER: Well, no, all of the "stans": Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan -- all of them. There is very substantial oil there. I don't think we know how many millions or billions of barrels. The largest oil country in the world is Saudi Arabia, and then there is Iraq. But if you put these parts of the former Soviet Union together, of which Kyrgyzstan is one, there is a very substantial quantity of oil. And I see the possibility emerging, Paula, that working with Russia, building pipelines, that we might begin to change our whole dependence on Middle Eastern oil.
ZAHN: But you're going to -- you have to acknowledge, it's going to take years to lessen our dependence on OPEC oil, isn't it?
BUTLER: Absolutely.
ZAHN: I mean, we're not talking about something that's...
BUTLER: Absolutely.
ZAHN: ... going to happen in the next four or five years, are we?
BUTLER: That's right. It's 30 years now since OPEC came into existence. And they have since dominated the quantities and prices of oil coming into the world market. That's made the United States very reliant on Saudi Arabia in particular. And there are lots of reasons now, I think, where, you know, for wanting to reduce that reliance.
Now, Russia is not conforming with OPEC rules. Russia is selling whatever quantity it chooses to and at its own determined price. They are busting the cartel. And as a consequence, the Russian economy is growing now in a way that it hasn't done in the last 10 years.
ZAHN: What was the growth rate -- 4 or 5 percent last year?
BUTLER: Four or five percent. So this a big emerging story. I tell you, Paula, oil is possibly partly what this is all about. And that base in Kyrgyzstan will give the United States a fairly permanent presence there. That's a big deal with respect to Russia and oil.
Now, China -- that's another issue. I think China...
ZAHN: Is China going to be threatened by it?
BUTLER: I think China might get a bit nervous about this, but I see a much bigger issue there with respect to China, and it's the problem between India and Pakistan. There's a very important report on that in today's "New York Times," which says the administration in Washington, working behind the scenes vigorously to reduce this current conflict between India and Pakistan, and to try to ensure that it doesn't become a nuclear conflict.
Now, China has always been a part of that conflict between India and Pakistan. And so, U.S. policy toward India and Pakistan, I think, will actually be more important to China than the fact that there will now be a U.S. airbase 200 miles from the Chinese border.
ZAHN: Since we haven't had a chance to talk to you over the last couple of weeks, some quick reflections on the ongoing search for Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden.
BUTLER: Well, I think it's very important that we have now got some very senior Taliban leadership, but it's very disappointing that the government of Afghanistan has not yet been in the position to hand over Mullah Omar. They know where he is. They can see that they've been talking with him, and I think it's very important that they come up with him as soon as possible. Osama bin Laden...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: No one is going to squeal on Osama bin Laden? Those Taliban leaders are going to protect him, aren't they?
BUTLER: Well, where is he? Where is he? I mean, the secretary of defense gave an amazing to the question, where is he, about a week ago. I was down in Australia, and I saw the answer there, and I thought this is extraordinary. I don't mean to make fun of him. I think he's doing a great job. But he actually said, "He's in Afghanistan or another country or dead." That's logical. I mean, of course, he's...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: That's a pretty broad net there.
BUTLER: He didn't say he was on another planet. Now, in other words, we don't know where he is. OK? And that is pretty disappointing.
Mullah Omar -- I think the Afghanis should hand him over. We need to be able to talk to him. I don't know where Osama bin Laden is. I don't think anyone does. A $25 million reward really should have been effective, you know...
ZAHN: Right.
BUTLER: ... for finding him.
ZAHN: It hasn't worked so far.
BUTLER: It's amazing to me that it hasn't been. But there are bigger things at issue -- you and I have talked about this before -- than just finding one man. There are much bigger things at issue, and they need to be pursued.
ZAHN: And we'll be pursing some of those issues in the days to come -- Dr. Richard Butler, thank you so much. BUTLER: OK -- good to see you.
ZAHN: Hope you liked the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in your welcome music.
BUTLER: It was good.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... down a little.
BUTLER: No, no, no, it was fine. It was fine.
ZAHN: All right, Dr. Butler -- thank you for dropping by.
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