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American Morning
"New York Times" Reports Iran Sending Agents into Afghanistan
Aired January 10, 2002 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Some disturbing reports this morning that Iran is starting to flex its political and military muscle. "The New York Times" reports today that Iran is sending agents into Afghanistan, and Israel says the huge shipload of arms it seized began its journey in Iran.
With his views joining us now is Richard Butler, former chief U.N. weapons inspector. He is now on the Council on Foreign Relations and our ambassador-in-residence -- good morning.
RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: Please put into context for us this morning a number of stories...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... that suggest that Iran is really angling for a significant role in the rebuilding of Afghanistan.
BUTLER: Well, Paula, remember a few weeks ago, there was an important conference to put together the new government of Afghanistan. The conference took place in Bonn, Germany. There were six countries, and above all, those around Afghanistan, plus the United States of course.
Now, Iran is one of the truly significant countries that have borders with Afghanistan. Russia and China are the others, and then there's all the stans, Kazakstan, Uzbekistan, and so on. Now, Iran is a very, very important country. It has a long history of involvement with Afghanistan, given that it has a significant border with that country.
ZAHN: Now, the issue is -- what -- Iran is concerned about a U.S. presence along its border?
BUTLER: Well, remember a couple of days ago, we talked about this permanent U.S. air base being established in Kyrgyzstan. And I think that's probably triggered Iran's current concerns, together with the fact, as that map shows, it has a border with Afghanistan, and has always been very influential in the northwest of Afghanistan.
Now, at the Bonn conference, a person was included in the new Afghan government that is sympathetic to Iran. I think that helps them, especially in maintaining stability on its border -- that northwest part of Afghanistan. But what we're now learning, Paula, is that it's actually not happy with the kind of influence that the U.S. will be bringing rather permanently into Afghanistan and into the region. And the report shows that as a consequence, it started to send agents into Afghanistan to see that -- well, we don't know all of the detail, but not the -- perhaps not all what the U.S. wants to achieve there is going to be achieved.
ZAHN: So we have a pretty good sense of what Iran doesn't want.
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: It doesn't like this U.S. presence along its border.
BUTLER: Permanently, yes.
ZAHN: It doesn't want the identity of Afghanistan to change...
BUTLER: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... a secular country like Turkey.
BUTLER: Exactly. Exactly.
ZAHN: What does Iran want?
BUTLER: Well, it wants a stable Afghanistan, one that is not too secularized, as you have just so rightly said. It wants one that is Islamic and not, you know, simply under U.S. influence in the way -- well, it doesn't want that.
Now, we've got a larger problem with Iran. As you know, this is the country that took the embassy hostage 25 years ago. This is the country that has been a supporter of some terrorist actions, particularly out of Lebanon towards Israel. This is the country from which that arms shipment that the Israelis stopped a few days ago -- 50 tons of arms we think ordered by Yasser Arafat.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Think. Didn't the administration...
BUTLER: Well...
ZAHN: ... pretty much...
BUTLER: ... yes...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... knowledge that Yasser Arafat not only knew about it...
BUTLER: Yes. ZAHN: ... but perhaps he just signed off on the shipment.
BUTLER: Indeed. OK. Indeed. I think we can...
ZAHN: Among other things, C-4 explosives.
BUTLER: Exactly. I think a C-4 explosive is not something you can say is just too -- for our police force. That's serious terrorist stuff. And I think we can accept that Arafat's fingerprints are on that. But the origin of those materials was Iran. We've got a complicated situation on our hands here. We have been working quietly to try to rebuild the relationship with Iran. Colin Powell has been hard at work at that just recently. But Iran, on the other hand, is now behaving this way and clearly has concerns that we wouldn't share. It's a complex situation.
ZAHN: Before we let you go, help us read through the conflicting things we are hearing. On one hand, you hear a key policy advisor saying relations with Iran have been quite constructive. On the other hand, in "The New York Times" in the piece this morning, there is suggestion that the administration officials are very concerned about Iran and what role it might play in Afghanistan.
BUTLER: Paula, that's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). OK. They are right to be very concerned -- deeply concerned. On the other hand, we have been trying to improve things, and there have been some constructive steps, but there's a long way -- long, long way to go, starting from within Iran itself. Iran is itself a divided polity. There's a fairly liberal minded president, but there is still that group of clerics who are deeply conservative who have ultimate authority in the country.
So there's a lot of stuff to be worked out within Iran, within its foreign policy. And, Paula, perhaps I'll finish by saying this. We are in desperate need of a new Iran policy. Truthfully, we haven't really had one for about 10 years now, and I think these developments point to that. We urgently need a coherent policy towards Iran.
ZAHN: And we'll be counting on you, ambassador, in the coming days to help us cut through some of the clutter that is coming our way.
BUTLER: OK.
ZAHN: Because the signals are very confused.
BUTLER: Yes, they are.
ZAHN: Thank you -- we'll see you tomorrow morning, same time, same place.
BUTLER: OK.
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