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American Morning

Twenty Taliban and Al Qaeda Prisoners Due to Arrive Today at Guantanamo; Discussion with Senator Joseph Biden

Aired January 11, 2002 - 07:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We move on now to the war in Afghanistan, where detainees are on the move. Twenty Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners are due to arrive today at the U.S. Naval base in Guantanamo, Cuba, after an 8,000 mile trip which began last night Afghanistan time.

Shortly after their plane departed Kandahar yesterday, U.S. troops at the airport came under small arms fire.

CNN's Bill Hemmer is standing by in Kandahar with the very latest -- good to see you, Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paula, thank you and good evening from Kandahar.

The most significant security action taken to date so far against the military base here also coincided at the same time the first shipment of detainees were headed off to Cuba, 20 in tow. We're told today from the U.S. marines eight to 14 opposition forces were detected only about 300 yards from marine positions here on the perimeter. They were dug in there in their foxholes.

Today we went out and spoke to several of them about what happened last night. They say there were fired on first and they quickly returned fire. All said it made for a very exciting night last night here in Kandahar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I seen the machine gun fire coming from over there from one of our holes. And then over there, about five minutes later, we saw some muzzle blasts coming over through our night vision goggles. And so we just basically waited until we heard it get closer and then we started unloading on them with our machine gun and tried to cover and tried to kill what was ever out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: According to eyewitnesses, that gunfire broke out the same time a C-17 was taking 20 detainees again on board to Cuba, the first shipment at Guantanamo Bay. When the gunfire erupted, for the next three hours the marines responded with Cobra gunships and activity at the airport was shut down. The 101st Airborne Division also on hand here at the airport, as well. They took cover. At daybreak, U.S. special forces inspected the area but found no one at that perimeter site. No injuries reported on either side.

Back in Tampa, U.S. Central Command indicating that the gunfire did not coincide, but rather came 15 minutes after that plane left the air space here in Kandahar. They say this action was not related to the detainees.

However, many marines and many army personnel we talked to today, and certainly many reports on the ground strongly disagree with that timing. Whatever the facts may be ultimately, the bottom line is this. The first action taken against this air base coincided on the first night, the first shipment of detainees were sent off to Guantanamo Bay -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, Bill, how might that affect the travel plans of the other detainees that continue to be held but haven't been moved?

HEMMER: It may have no impact and no effect at all. The military indicating today they do not plan to alter any of their plans right now. In fact, there's a strong possibility that another shipment may leave for Cuba once again later tonight when the sun goes down, possibly in a few hour's time. As one marine put it, they're going to not stop the war for the sake of small rifle fire on the perimeter here in Kandahar -- Paula.

ZAHN: OK, Bill, thanks so much for that update. We'll be checking in with you again in about a half hour.

On the heels of a nine member Senate delegation that toured Afghanistan and the region earlier this week, Senator Joseph Biden, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, has also gone to Kabul on a fact finding mission of his own. He plans to travel to Pakistan and India as well.

And Senator Biden joins us now from Kabul. Good to have you with us, sir.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Hi, Paula. How are you?

ZAHN: I'm good, thanks. So, Senator, what is it that you plan to accomplish separate from what the nine member Senate delegation accomplished earlier this week?

BIDEN: Well, Paula, that nine member delegation was really only able to stay for four or five hours necessarily because of their schedule. I'm here for four days and I've just, for example, had a two hour meeting with Chairman Karzai, the leader of the new government. I'm going from here to meet with Mr. Brahimi, the head of the United Nations who is here in charge of the operations. I'm meeting with our military.

And what I hope to find out is two things, the degree of dedication of the new government to eradicating terrorism, number one. And number two, what needs they believe they have relative to being able to put a stable government in place and what kind of multinational force is needed to provide security to get them up and running.

ZAHN: All right, Senator, let me bring you back to the first point you made, when you're going to talk to Mr. Karzai and other members of the government about their commitment to continuing this war on terrorism. Much has been made of the fact that seven leading members of the Taliban were released, they were freed. What do you make of that?

BIDEN: Yes. I raised that -- well, I'm not sure what to make of it because I raised that issue today, this afternoon here, Kabul time, with Mr. Karzai. He indicated to me that it was not factually accurate, those reports. He indicated that one very bad actor, the former minister of justice of the Taliban, was within the governor of Kandahar's control as a negotiation relating to the giving up of more members of the Taliban and that he had been allowed to leave after that negotiation, and that he had ordered the arrest of this minister of interior under the Taliban government and that he had notified American forces of his desire to seek assistance in doing that.

So quite frankly, Paula, I've gotten a conflicting story here. I can't vouch for the voracity of what Chairman Karzai told us, except he went on to point out that it was much more, he believes that this war is not over yet, that terrorism here in his country has not been rooted out, that there are still Taliban and al Qaeda forces in this country and until we're able, they are able to eradicate those folks, he's not going to get people to move back to their villages, he's not going to be able to restore order.

So it seems it's very much in his interests to support every effort to crack down and eliminate the terrorists. But the question becomes how much control does he have from Kabul out into the provinces like in Kandahar? And I think that's an open question.

ZAHN: Senator Biden, I know you plan to head on to Pakistan and India, and there is a very disturbing Reuters report out this morning with some quotes from the chief Indian army chief. And he is saying that a warlike situation is developing with Pakistan. Here is his direct quote, that the Indian army was fully prepared for any conventional war with Pakistan and was ready to mount a counter nuclear strike should Islamabad use nuclear weapons.

This, once again, being reported by Reuters this morning. Your reaction to that?

BIDEN: My reaction is this is the most dangerous place in the world and that I am leaving here on Sunday to meet with the president of Pakistan and then been given permission to fly across the Indian/Pakistan line to meet in Delhi with Mr. Vajpayee, the prime minister of India. And because I think it is the single most dangerous flashpoint in the world.

The question becomes what does Musharraf have to do to demonstrate to the Indian government that he's serious about cracking down upon terrorists who are engaging in and have engaged in horrific acts in India and conversely whether or not the Indian government is prepared to find a way out of this dilemma.

I'm supposed to go, at least tentatively, up to the, up to Kashmir, where the forces are facing off against one another, both with the Pakistani military and then a day later with the Indian military, to see for myself and hear their case.

But the whole point here is they've got to stand down. They know for a fact that this is a lose-lose situation. But I am fearful that unless some specific action takes place that allows the Indian government to say well, you have moved, and/or Musharraf is able to make the case he has taken enough action that the world community says to India back off, things could get out of hand.

But that's the dilemma, Paula. I am not at all sanguine about the situation.

ZAHN: All right, Senator, we're going to have to leave it there this morning.

Senator Biden, thank you for joining us from Afghanistan this morning and we will be looking forward to your reflections on your trip to Pakistan and India as well.

Thank you again for your time this morning. We appreciate it.

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