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American Morning

As Taliban and Al Qaeda Fighters Shipped to Cuba, Questions About Their Status and Treatment

Aired January 16, 2002 - 08:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Are they detainees or are they prisoners of war? And why does it matter, or does it, what do we call them? As enemy Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters are shipped to Guantanamo Naval base in Cuba, there are questions about their status and about their treatment. And, of course, also this morning we've been talking about the issue of Taliban American John Walker and the Justice Department design on him, which is to try him in a civilian court on charges that will only carry life imprisonment as opposed to the death penalty.

Here to Sound Off on these two questions from Washington D.C., Deomcratic strategist Bob Beckel and Cliff May, the former Republican National Committee communications director.

Gentlemen, nice to have you with us.

Who cares what's we call them? I mean, does it matter?

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, here's what matters: These people are unlawful combatants rather than prisoners of war, because among them, are quite at few terrorists. Now they're being treated consistent with the Geneva Accords, but we don't recognize them as prisoners of war, so the Geneva Accords don't legally apply. They're being treated OK.

The most important thing right, Jack, is that they be interrogateed. So we find out what terrorist activities are being planned right now against Americans and others, and then there may be some terrorists among who will be tried and prosecuted.

CAFFERTY: Bob, we understand that their beards and their heads are being shaved. And among other things, they're being fed a diet of bagels and cream cheese. That would make me confess to almost anything.

But what about the treatment, and should there be supervision? And what about the fact that they're in open-air prisons exposed to the elements? Give me your take on how we're handling these people.

BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: First of all, Jack, let me say, we're used to seeing Paula early in the morning, and you're very funny and very good, man, but you're not as good looking. I'm sorry, this is the tway is. CAFFERTY: Yes, neither are you.

BECKEL: I know that from the start. I accept that.

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: And, by the way, put locks on it, maybe it wouldn't be bad. But I -- this is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. I mean, Cliff May is a smart man, but I was born at night, not last night. The Geneva Accord is clearly in effect here. The United States has abided by the Geneva Accord since it was put into effect...

MAY: And we continue to.

BECKEL: Wait a second.

MAY: Let me ask you this one quick question.

BECKEL: You cannot let me finish a sentence.

MAY: One quick question -- do you think all terrorists are entitled to the Geneva Accord rights?

BECKEL: The answer to that, anybody fighting in Afghanistan against the U.S., yes. And I'll tell you why.

MAY: Tell me about it.

BECKEL: Say, for example in Vietnam, we brought in South Koreans to fight with us. We brought in Australians to fight with us against the Vietnamese. And they were under the Geneva Accords. We declared war on Afghanistan -- war, and war means you're fighting against soldiers. They, if anybody, ought to abide by the Geneva Accord. Who's got the high hand here? We do. You guys want to shave their beards, shave their heads, They're going to have bad sun tans on their heads, and then we're going to have all kinds of human rights complaints. Do it the right way. The right way is these are warriors who fought, we beat them, they were entitled to...

MAY: Your consideration for these folks is very, very touching. Let me tell you, they're being treated better than if still in the caves of Afghanistan. Secondly, they're being treated better than they would be if they were prosecuted in Afghanistan right now. Thirdly, you don't want to establish the precedent -- now about it, Bob -- that Every terrorist you arrest anywhere in the world is a prisoner of war entitled to all the rights and guarantees of prisoners of war. We're in new territory here. It's a new war. We have to think it through.

By the way, these guys are being treated well. They're being given hal-el (ph), which is the Muslim equivalent of kosher. They're getting blankets. They're getting Korans. They are being kept outside, but hey, this is the Caribbean. People love to sleep outside in the Carribean. They're being treated OK, but they've got to be interrogated.

CAFFERTY: Let met get in the middle of this before we run out of time. Let's move on. I want to move on to the John Walker case.

Civilian court versus court martial, military tribunal. Death penalty versus life in prison. Apparently, the door's still open if they can gather evidence on charges that would support a death penalty punishment. Are they making the right decision at the Justice Department, vis-a-vis Mr. Walker?

MAY: Yes, I would say absolutely. John Ashcroft, with help from the National Security Council and the Pentagon, they've looked at the evidence, looked at his statments, and they're filing appropriate charges against him. If they find further evidence, they'll go further. Right now, Ashcroft's doing it right.

BECKEL: Let me just say you're right, we can agree on one thing, Cliff. Ashcroft needs a lot of help in a lot of ways.

But the answer to this thing is they indicted this kid under a law that was passed while he was in the mountains fighting with the Taliban. Now, it could be argued that, I guess, Ashcroft said, well, why didn't he leave? Now, think about that for a second. You got 2,000 armed Taliban around you, and you're going say, boys, there's a new law in my country, and I'm walking out. Are you kidding me? This kid, first of all, I don't think he's mentally stable, I think he needs a lot of help, and I would go along with what the compassionate conservative George Bush said, this is a misguided young man. And, Cliff, you got to have some heart, man. It's the beginning of a new year -- heart, something that has eluded conservatives for a long time.

MAY: You've got a lot of heart. Bob, this guy knew he was joining up with a force that intended to kill Americans, to kill infidels, Christians, Jews, Hindus, even moderate Muslims, even Saudi Arabia. The one thing I agree with you on is he may be mentally unstable. He was indoctrinated and maybe brainwashed in Taliban schools, which unfortunately, were financed by our allies Saudi Arabia, and I thing one needs to look into that.

BECKEL: Gentlemen, I got to stop you, because the clock has said we have no more time. I got ot thank you both for being with us. Bob Beckel, political strategist for the Democratic Party, Cliff May, former Republican National Committee director and president of the the Foundation for Defense and Democracy.

See you next time, and you can fight it out with, Paula.

MAY: Thanks, Jack.

BECKEL: Jack, you're the best, buddy.

CAFFERTY: Good to see you both.

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