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American Morning

Lt. Col. McSally Continues Suit Against Defense Department

Aired January 24, 2002 - 09:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: "Up Front" this morning, a question of dress or freedom of religion? Just yesterday, the Pentagon actually dropped a requirement that women in the military who are serving in Saudi Arabia be covered from head to toe when they travel off base. But the Pentagon left many other restrictions in place, including, rules prohibiting them from driving a car or even sitting in the front seat.

Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Martha McSally is a first class jet fighter pilot, a top gun, but while stationed in Saudi Arabia last year, she says she often felt like she was a second-class citizen. Well, the U.S. military policy forced her to wear a long, black Islamic robe, like these Saudi woman, over her uniform whenever she left the base.

Well, Lieutenant Colonel McSally decided to sue the Defense Department over the Saudi dress code, charging religious discrimination. But, even though the Pentagon dropped that part of the policy, she is still pressing her claim.

And Martha McSally joins us now from Tucson, Arizona, where it's very early there, along with her attorney, John Whitehead, who joins us this morning from Charlottesville, Virginia. Welcome to the two of you. Glad to have you with us.

JOHN WHITEHEAD, ATTORNEY: Thank you.

LT. COL. MARTHA MCSALLY, U.S. AIR FORCE: Good morning.

ZAHN: Lieutenant Colonel McSally, in spite of the fact that the Pentagon changed, now, this dress requirement. Why do you still plan to continue with the suit?

MCSALLY: Well, it's certainly moving in the right direction. But, there are lots of issues within the suit that also need to be addressed. We also do have concern with the wording in the policy. Even though it's no longer mandatory to wear the abaya, it's -- quote -- "strongly encouraged," which in a military environment, can easily be construed as an order. Also yesterday, an Army spokesman said, that, in fact, they are still ordering women to wear the abaya, despite the four-star general's directive.

So, we do have some concerns remaining and will continue to move forward. But, it definitely is a step in the right direction. ZAHN: So, Lieutenant Colonel, let us -- help us better understand your concern this morning. If you think this is construed as an order, are you worried what will happen to you if you don't obey what you perceive as an order?

MCSALLY: Well, I believe, if I were to go back over there now, I would take the policy at its word. And that I would be no longer forced to wear a clothing of a faith I do not follow. But, in a military environment, often when we use the words "strongly encouraged," coming from a four-star general, the young enlisted women could see that as an order. No, they certainly wouldn't be punished for not following that order or perceived order, but it certainly would not have them make an informed, voluntary -- purely voluntary decision to not wear the abaya.

ZAHN: So, Lieutenant Colonel, what would happen to American men that were serving in the armed forces. that would travel off base? What were they required to wear?

MCSALLY: Well, the same directives that I have been trying to get changed prohibit men from wearing any local, customary religious clothing. So, they are prohibited from wearing any -- any local Muslim clothing. And they wear jeans and collared shirts when they go off base. So, they're clearly Western American military men with jeans and collared shirts traveling off base.

ZAHN: So when you were traveling with them, it was almost impossible to see, and they recognize that you were Americans serving in Saudi Arabia?

MCSALLY: Well, they -- we looked like a group of American military men with an American military woman wearing an abaya. We clearly weren't blending in or preventing any sort of terrorist attack by having our women wear the abaya.

ZAHN: There has been, I know, tremendous concern among the people representing you, that this could really hurt your future in the military. Can you point to anything that already has made it less likely that you're going to climb up the ladder? Just because of this suit?

MCSALLY: Well, yeah. I'm trying not to focus on that. I just, you know, make my decisions based on what I believe is my moral obligation, a commitment to my oath of office to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and my religious conviction as a follower of Christ. So, I have had some negative feedback because of the choices I've made, by some people above me, and I try really not to focus on that. I'm just trying to do just the right thing.

ZAHN: Mr. Whitehead, you, no doubt, have read some of the criticisms surrounding this suit that Lieutenant Colonel McSally filed. Among them, that -- and I'm going to read this from this piece that was in the paper yesterday, that your client showed exactly -- quote -- "the kind of narrow-mindedness that breeds perceptions of the ugly American around the world." Do you understand that criticism? WHITEHEAD: I really don't understand it. No. I think that we have American values. I think that Lieutenant Colonel McSally took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution for seven years. She fought inside the Air Force to try to get this policy changed. They would not move. So, clearly, it's unconstitutional. We believe that. There's -- you know discrimination against women. There's a number of First Amendment issues here. In fact, also, our government is financing the abayas. They're paying for them. They're forcing women to put them on. They're religious garments.

If we bought crosses and forced women to put them on in a Christian country, that would clearly be unconstitutional. So, obviously, this woman's a hero. She's not narrow-minded. She's upholding American values, the things that we all, supposedly, were over in Afghanistan fighting for.

ZAHN: What could the government offer you, at this point, that would allow for you to drop this suit?

WHITEHEAD: Well, what we're asking for -- we're asking for all the gender discrimination claims to be taken care of. For example, should Martha McSally have to ride in the back seat of vehicle if she goes off base dressed in an abaya. Could she -- can she drive a vehicle? She can fly a Warhawk, but she cannot fly -- cannot drive a vehicle off base. A

Also we want her records cleaned up. If there's any kind of negative comments on her records at all, we want to make sure that -- that before a board of corrections, those are cleaned up. But, I think that there is a chance this case could move in a positive direction, but it's up to the government.

ZAHN: Lieutenant Colonel McSally, in closing, I know you say you don't want to think so much about your future and the impact this case may have on it, but do you think this has all but killed your chances of any promotion?

MCSALLY: Honestly, I'm not really sure. And I think, at the end of -- at the end of the day, we are measured more by our impact than our rank that we achieve. And so I believe, at this time, I'm doing the right thing for my oath, for my country that I love and for my military that I love. So we'll see what happens tomorrow.

ZAHN: All right. Lieutenant Colonel Martha McSally and John Whitehead. Thank you both for coming by and joining us on "AMERICAN MORNING".

WHITEHEAD: Thank you.

MCSALLY: Thank you.

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