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American Morning

House Members Discuss Women's Wages

Aired January 25, 2002 - 08:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The big question we're looking at this hour: Do men actually deserve to be paid more than women? The so- called glass ceiling is apparently getting thicker. A new congressional study says the salary gap between male and female managers in many industries actually grew during the five-year period from 1995 to the year 2000.

Reps. Carolyn Maloney of New York and John Dingell of Michigan commissioned the study. They both join us this morning from Washington. Welcome, good to see the two of you.

REP. JOHN DINGELL (D), MICHIGAN: Good morning.

REP. CAROLYN MALONEY (D), NEW YORK: Good to see you, Paula.

ZAHN: Thank you. So Rep. Maloney, let's take a look at some of the findings of this study to give both of you a chance to analyze this for us this morning. Full-time women managers earn less, as we just said, than men in the years 1995 to 2000. In seven of ten industries, the earnings gap between full-time women and men managers widened between 1995 and 2000. And only half of the industries studied had women managers in proportion with women in the industry's work force in the year 2000.

Now, aren't there, Ms. Maloney, discrimination laws that are supposed to prevent this from happening?

MALONEY: There are laws in place; they're obviously not being enforced. And I believe it's very much of a wake-up call to corporate America, the seven industries that had the biggest gap or the private sector, the three industries that were more in line were heavily regulated. Almost public sector, hospitals, education and public administrators. So I just think we have to make sure that our actions in terms of equality live up to our rhetoric.

What was most disturbing about this report was that it happened during a time of great prosperity and economic growth. So when America was strongest, women slipped. We didn't spread the wealth, we grew the disparity.

ZAHN: Rep. Dingell, there are critics out there that suggest there's a very good reason for this gap. And the say it's because women choose to take time off while they're having children and raise them. And I want you to take a look at what Ed Hudgins from the CATO Institute had to say about this in "The Washington Post" yesterday. Quote, "It has nothing to do with men cutting their salaries because they wanted to be mean. Would these congressmen content that employers have become discriminatory in the past five years? It's a hard argument to make."

How do you respond to that, Rep. Dingell?

DINGELL: I respond that it doesn't have much to do with the real situation. The answer is, there are many, many things that affect the earnings capacity of women, particularly in the managerial status. The simple answer is that all of these things are working together to see to it that women aren't making the same wage as managers that men do.

I think we have as a nation to disregard this kind of argument and focus on what it is we have to do to see to it that everybody has a full opportunity. Obviously, having children; obviously, child care; obviously, raising families who have problems that are peculiarly affronting and confronting women. The fact of the matter is, however, there are things that can and should be done about those.

There are also other things. And the simple fact of the matter is we don't know what all the problems are. We know they are here; we know the result is unfair; we know that something has to be done, and we believe that the American people want to be fair on these matters.

ZAHN: But, Rep. Dingell, you heard what your colleague had to say. That she feels that the best start is to make sure these discrimination laws are enforced. Do you have any faith that that's going to happen?

DINGELL: I believe that that's true. But I believe that -- there's one thing about this, Paula. This study tends to show something, and that is that there are a lot of questions that we are -- that we do not know. And it raises more questions, frankly, than it answers. But, certainly, that is a major step. And one of the other things that needs to be done, for example, is what my good colleague Congresswoman Maloney says, and that is we need to do something also about an equal rights amendment, about additional statutes, and about additional enforcement.

ZAHN: So in the meantime, Rep. Maloney, you've got women out there -- and these statistics, I think, are pretty interesting -- that two-thirds of American families' income are provided by women -- at least half of the income. And so these women find themselves in industries where they're not making any headway. What are they supposed to do in advance of these additional laws getting passed?

MALONEY: Well, I think that's an important point, that it's not a woman's issue, it's a family's issue. Because women's salaries are needed to help support the family, and in many cases, they're single parents. And when you discriminate against a woman's salary, you discriminate against her children and her husband and her entire family.

I'll tell you the truth, Paula, when we commissioned this study, John and I are actually shocked at the results. We didn't expect it to be as bad as it is. I, quite frankly, thought, Paula, that the life and the job opportunities that our daughters would face would be easier than the one that we faced. But this is extremely disturbing and shows that women -- particularly in managerial positions -- have lost ground.

When I began working, probably when you began working, women were paid 50 cents to the dollar. We're now paid 76 cents to the dollar. We've made progress, but it's still not fair, it's still not equal. But this shows just striking disparity.

In one case in entertainment, they said that had slipped 21 cents. That the woman's dollar had dropped down to roughly 65 cents to the dollar.

ZAHN: Wow.

MALONEY: So it raises very disturbing information. We intend to continue working on it, we intend to join with our colleagues on both sides of the aisle working to enforce the laws that we have on the books. And really working to put other laws on the books. I have to ask, why can't we pass the equality amendment? I think everybody in America feels that men and women should be treated equally and have equal opportunity.

ZAHN: That sounds like a good subject for us to debate here on another morning. We really appreciate Rep. Dingell, your coming in. And Rep. Maloney, you as well, to shed some light on this study that you commissioned. Have a good weekend.

MALONEY: Thank you, Paula.

DINGELL: Thanks, you too.

ZAHN: I appreciate your time.

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