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Is There Now a Rift in Bush Administration Over How Detainees at Camp X-Ray Should be Classified?

Aired January 28, 2002 - 04:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The big question this morning, is there now a rift in the Bush administration over how the detainees at Camp X-Ray should be classified? Senior administration officials deny there is any split, but published reports over the weekend suggest that Colin Powell is asking President Bush that the United States be bound by the Geneva Convention in its treatment of the detainees at Guantanamo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The actual issue is different than that. We're all in agreement -- Colin, me, Don Rumsfeld, that these are not lawful combatants. They're not prisoners of war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: For the very latest on all this, let's bring Barbara Starr into the picture. She joins us from the Pentagon this morning -- good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.

Well, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is making it very clear on his trip to Guantanamo Bay yesterday that he believes these detainees are exactly that, they're unlawful combatants, and that they simply don't deserve POW status under the Geneva Convention. And he and the Pentagon at the moment are very determined to keep that the government policy.

Colin Powell and the State Department have expressed some reservations about it, but the Pentagon says it's not going to change its mind and it doesn't think the White House should, either.

ZAHN: So is this issue of how the detainees will be classified considered settled?

STARR: Well, not exactly, because Powell and the State Department have asked the White House to reconsider it and consider having them processed under the Geneva Convention. And should the White House change its mind, at least it is looking at what the State Department has asked for, then, of course, it's far from settled. But Don Rumsfeld's point that he makes is he says these detainees are terrorists, that they weren't soldiers, they weren't wearing uniforms, they weren't carrying open weapons, they weren't taking their orders from a central government -- recognized government authority and that they were simply terrorists out to kill people so they don't deserve

POW status.

And, of course, another key question is this. If they got POW status under the Geneva Convention, all they have to do then is give name, rank and serial number, and that's exactly what the Pentagon doesn't want because the top priority for the Pentagon is interrogating them now and getting every bit of intelligence that they can get out of them -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Barbara Starr, we're going to have more on this in our next interview.

Thank you very much.

As Barbara just mentioned, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld was in Guantanamo yesterday giving four U.S. senators a tour of Camp X-Ray, the second congressional filed trip to the base so far.

Now, while there he answered questions from reporters about how the prisoners are classified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: The characteristics of the individuals that have been captured is that they are unlawful combatants, not lawful combatants. That is why they are characterized as detainees and not prisoners of war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison was one of those who got a firsthand look yesterday at Camp X-Ray and its living conditions. She joins us now from Washington.

Thank you for joining us so quickly on the heels of this trip. Good to see you.

SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: So tell us a little bit about what you saw once you traveled there with a Secretary of Defense.

HUTCHISON: Well, it was a very clean facility. The medical care that these prisoners are getting is the same as our own military are getting. They've operated on them. They've repaired broken limbs. They've started treating some for malaria. They're testing them for tuberculosis.

They've also given them a cleric, a chaplain that is Islam. They allow them to be called to prayer in their regular cycle. So I think by any standards these people are being treated very humanely.

ZAHN: Another one of your colleagues, Senator Feinstein, who served on the California Board of Paroles, I guess, said she thought these conditions were much better than some of the conditions she'd seen in California prisons. Nevertheless, you've got people like Chris Patton, who is the European Union's external affairs commissioner, saying even the perception of mistreatment of these detainees by the U.S. government is, quote, in his words, "would be a way of losing international support and losing the moral high ground."

Are you sensitive at all to any of those concerns?

HUTCHISON: Well, the perception is created by people who haven't been there. And there was a picture that was taken where the detainees had just come in. They were being held down with their shackles on because they were being processed. They were only in that situation for an hour or an hour and a half and then they were processed. And they went into their cells and their cells give them room to exercise. And I think that these people who have caused this uproar have not been there and that's why I appreciate that Secretary Rumsfeld chose to take a bipartisan group down to look for himself, let us see for ourselves.

And we were all, to a person, very satisfied that we are going the extra mile to be fair to these people.

ZAHN: Both Vice President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld made reference to the fierce nature of these detainees and their will to kill, their readiness to attack. And they also talked about the issue of potential leaders emerging at Camp X-Ray.

Did you see any signs of that?

HUTCHISON: Well, you couldn't see the signs. You saw them very able to talk to each other. It's very open. So they can certainly talk and converse and send messages. And I think that it is very important to remember that prisoners who have been held already have had very horrible uprisings. They've killed Americans. They've, they are very patient. Their looking, they know that they're looking in that prison for what the security procedures are and I think we have to be on constant guard that they could have an uprising even on Guantanamo Bay and harm some of our own military people because they're willing to commit suicide.

So this is a very different kind of prisoner we're dealing with.

ZAHN: Senator Hutchison, you've just heard that the White House is trying to downplay any reports of a rift within the administration about exactly how to deal with these detainees. But Secretary Powell urging, although, that the United States shouldn't classify them as prisoners of war just yet, that the United States should at least abide by the Geneva Conventions.

Can you shed some light on any discord right now in the administration? HUTCHISON: Well, I think it's very important to remember first they don't qualify. They are not lawful combatants. But secondly, we do need to be able to interrogate them for intelligence purposes. We haven't finished this war. We are still looking for the al Qaeda networks around the world. So any information we can get we need, which we could not do under the Geneva Convention. And these people are not being in any way tortured but they are being questioned and some of them are being forthcoming.

And then third, it affects how you can dispose of them and when they have to be let go. And we need to be able to keep all the options. But the first question answered, they don't qualify, is the main one. But it also would hamper us greatly in fighting this war if we were not able to talk to them.

ZAHN: We only have 10 seconds left on this one. Are you saying, then, that Secretary Powell is odd man out on this one...

HUTCHISON: Actually, I don't...

ZAHN: ... when he's asking the U.S. to abide by the Geneva Convention?

HUTCHISON: I think he may have been taken out of context. That was a leaked memo. I don't -- I mean of all people, Secretary Powell is going to stand up for our military and our ability to get that information and I believe that that is what he meant. He probably meant we should treat them humanely, which we are doing.

ZAHN: Senator Hutchison, as always, good to see you.

HUTCHISON: Thank you.

ZAHN: Thank you so much for dropping by our studios this morning.

HUTCHISON: Thank you, Paula.

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