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American Morning
Amtrak's Woes Continue As Council Recommends Breakup
Aired February 07, 2002 - 08:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: You are looking at some live pictures of the annual prayer breakfast in Washington, where President Bush is expected to speak shortly. When that happens, we're going to go live and listen to some of his remarks.
But, first, we're going to talk railroad travel with Jack. That's not Jack, here's Jack. Good morning, again.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How you doing?
ZAHN: Good.
CAFFERTY: Paula, the question this hour, will Congress derail Amtrak? It could happen. A report by the Amtrak Reform Council goes to Congress today, and it's expected to call for the eventually breakup of the national passenger rail system. On Friday, Amtrak announced that without more federal funding in the next few months, it may have to end some of its unprofitable long distance service. Gone could be trains with classic names like the "Southern Crescent" and the "California Zephyr."
In a moment, we'll talk to Amtrak's acting chairman, Michael Dukakis about Amtrak's future. But when the nation's airline system came to a halt on September the 11th, hundreds of thousands of people crowded on to the nation's trains.
One of the most popular lines is the so-called "Northeast Corridor," train service that connects Boston with New York, with Washington, D.C. But now with the planes flying again, which is better, the train or the plane?
Our Michael Okwu did a little comparison shopping.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's about 8:00 right now. We're hoping to make the 9:30 Delta shuttle, which should take us about -- I'd say, about, 20 to 25 minutes to get there, and we should be on our way.
(voice-over): I'm pretty lucky, rarely do I get a cab this fast, at this hour. The shuttle leaves from La Guardia, the closest airport to midtown Manhattan. Today, traffic is a breeze. I reach the airport at 8:26. (on camera): Well, that cost me about $20, with tip. We're now about to make our 9:30 shuttle. And we got here in about 25 minutes. Let's hope we can get into the airport and not have to face too much security.
(voice-over): As usual, I have an E-ticket waiting inside. A five-minute wait in line, a quick check of the itinerary, and then the usual questions -- was my bag with me at all times?
(on camera): Yes.
(voice-over): The ticket costs $205. The security is priceless. Our plane takes off 20 minutes late because airline staff conducted random baggage and body searches at the gate. It's 10:34.
(on camera): This fellow was on the flight with me. Why do you take the plane instead of the train?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's faster. It's a lot faster.
OKWU: It's faster? It's much more expensive?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may be pricier, but I'm a corporate traveler, so I want to get there as quickly as I can.
OKWU (voice-over): He's right. The plane's pricier, but faster? We'll see. I arrive at the CNN offices at 10:55. From the time I hailed a cab in New York, it's taken about three hours.
(on camera): Our business is done in the Washington bureau, and now I'm trying to make a 2:00 Accela Express on Amtrak back to New York. Luckily, Union Station is just a five-minute walk from the bureau.
What time does it get in?
(voice-over): After a two-minute wait, I pick up my ticket for Amtrak's new high-speed train. Cost, $145, $60 cheaper than the plane ticket.
(on camera): How are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good.
OKWU (voice-over): Before entering the track, a woman checks my ticket, and I'm gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The one thing, I'll be honest with you that troubles me, is the lack of security on the train. Nobody checked my bags, no metal detectors...
OKWU: Amtrak says it spent more than $16 million this year on security, much of it behind the scenes on train yards, bridges, tunnels, plain clothes police. This traveler occasionally takes a morning flight to New York. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To take the 6:00 a.m. shuttle from National Airport, commute from my home, get there the requisite number of hours beforehand doesn't save me anytime at all.
OKWU: I notice passengers whiling away the time working, sleeping, and spying other means of transport. We arrive New York's Penn Station at 4:48 p.m.
(on camera): So now it is almost 5:00, and the CNN bureau is about a five-minute walk away from here. So that means that it took us about three hours to get from Washington, D.C. To New York City's midtown. Almost the exact amount that it took us to leave from New York to get to Washington, D.C., except we did it on the train for about $100 less.
Michael Okwu, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAFFERTY: Well, raves from passengers aside, Amtrak's future appears to be bleak, at least this morning.
Joining us from Los Angeles, California, Michael Dukakis, the former Massachusetts governor, former presidential candidated, and now acting chairman of Amtrak. Mr. Dukakis, thanks for getting up early. It's nice to have you with us on "AMERICAN MORNING."
MICHAEL DUKAKIS, ACTING CHAIRMAN OF AMTRAK: I'm still on Boston time. I can't get off it.
CAFFERTY: Okay. Let's talk about the five-year period that Congress gave Amtrak to sort of get its house in order, and while we talk about it, we're going to look at some staggering numbers. Amtrak continuing to hemorrhage money, beginning with a loss of $762 million in 1997, and growing to a loss of over a billion dollars last year. What's wrong, what's the problem?
DUKAKIS: Well, for one thing, those numbers are wildly overstated. I don't mean that they're inaccurate, but they include depreciation, they include nearly $200 billion -- $200 million a year we have to pay into the railroad retirement fund, on account of employees that don't even -- never worked for us.
Our actual operating gap is about $285 to $295 million, and we are working every day to cut that down. On the other hand, Amtrak has performed magnificently over these past several months. The new high- speed train, as you saw, is going gang busters. About 10,000 people a day take that during an average business day. We responded to the 9- 11 tragedy by really carrying the country on our backs for weeks and weeks.
What's missing is the same kind of commitment to rail that we've been giving to highways and airports and airlines for the past several decades. And what we're suggesting, and, I think Congress is going to respond, is no more than four or five percent of what we put into airlines, and airports and highways every year for a first-class, modern, high-speed rail system. I think we need it. I think the Congress believes we need it. And that's essentially the kind of support that we need in order to give you that kind of service.
CAFFERTY: Well, you know, the critics, though, will counter, and say, "Well, we just keep throwing money at this problem, and Amtrak keeps losing money." This outfit called the Amtrak Reform Council, under the leadership of a guy named Tom Till, is going to recommend today that Amtrak be split into three different parts.
DUKAKIS: That's right.
CAFFERTY: One division that would run the trains, one that would be in charge of the Northeast Corridor, and a third that would create some sort of federal oversight agency. Your reaction? Is that the answer?
DUKAKIS: Doesn't make any sense at all. We're going to create three government agencies instead of one? We're going to take the basic infrastructure in the northeast corridor, the most successful thing we do, away from Amtrak and give it to somebody else? And then, apparently, we're going to privatize the system. Now, the British tried that, and it's a disaster. And I'm old enough to remember when we did have privatized passenger railroads, and the service was awful. That's why we created Amtrak.
CAFFERTY: That's one of the other considerations on the table is opening this thing up to competition. Is that a bad idea?
DUKAKIS: Well, the British tried it. It's been a disaster. Incidentally, this isn't really a competitive system that they're talking about. These would be monopoly franchises given to certain operators. And you know what lines they'd be going after. The thing that the council simply refuses to do, is to step up and tell us exactly what kind of commitment to capital investment we need in high- speed rail in this country.
And everybody agrees, regardless of what the form of the organization is, that that's the most important question. And I hope this year, that Congress will address it. I think they will. But I hope people also understand that under very difficult circumstances, Amtrak has been doing a hell of a job. As a matter of fact, the inspector general of the Department of Transportation said it was it was a miracle that we had done as well as we had done, under the circumstances.
So that's what we need -- a commitment to a modest but consistent amount of capital investment in the system. And let me tell you, if we get it, we'll give you a passenger rail system that will knock your socks off. And we can -- we see already what it does in the northeast corridor.
CAFFERTY: Indeed.
DUKAKIS: Look at what is going on there. A first-class train, people are riding it, thousands every day. That's what we need all over America. CAFFERTY: Yeah, I once in a while get on that shuttle from New York down to Washington, D.C. It's a nice ride, and the service is great.
DUKAKIS: It's terrific!
CAFFERTY: We will follow up with you as this story moves forward and is taken to the Congress today. And perhaps we can chat a little bit about where Amtrak goes from here, at some time down the road, Mr. Dukakis.
DUKAKIS: Love to be able to do it. Thank you.
CAFFERTY: All right, thanks very much. Michael Dukakis, the acting chairman of Amtrak.
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