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American Morning

Comments by Bush Trigger Anti-American Demonstrations Throughout Iran

Aired February 13, 2002 - 08:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We turn now to the issue of Iran and the "axis of evil". The comments by President Bush triggered anti- American demonstrations this week throughout Iran. The protest also reflects the country's internal power struggle, a battle between Iran's reformist President Mohammad Khatami and its hard-line religious leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Both in effect are in power, and Joe Klein has just returned from Iran and in the current issue of "The New Yorker" Magazine he writes about the internal fight for Iran's future, and Joe Klein joins us this morning from Charleston, South Carolina. Good to see you again. Good morning Joe.

JOE KLEIN, THE NEW YORKER: Hi Paula, good to see you again.

ZAHN: We're going to try to shed some light on this internal struggle going on as reflected through public comments made by both leaders. Let's start off with something the president of Iran told our Christiane Amanpour shortly after September 11. Let's listen to that first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT MOHAMMAD KHATAMI, IRAN (through translator): The September 11 attack was the ugliest form of terrorism ever seen. There's no problem between our nation and the nation of America. We've had good exchanges over the last four years or so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Now at the same time, this is what Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI KHAMENEI, RELIGIOUS LEADER (through translator): How do they have the nerve to ask for help from the Iranian government after 23 years of brining harm to that nation?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Now Joe if that doesn't show the internal power struggle going on, I don't know what else does. How severe of a rift is there, there? KLEIN: Well the first thing I should say is that those weren't the only two official statements from the Iranian government. Former President (UNINTELLIGIBLE) then said that Iran would be willing to join the United States in a U.N.-led coalition, so there are at least three positions, which gives you some indication of just how confusing it is.

I mean there are forces of evil in that government. The Mulles (ph), the people who control the revolutionary guards and the internal security apparatus, but they don't - they don't have very much support among the public, and the one thing that they do have is the notion that they are oppressed in the world by the great Satan, us, and in some ways I think the president kind of walked in - our president, kind of walked into that sense when he described Iran as part of the "axis of evil".

ZAHN: And before we analyze that, I wanted to put up on the screen something that you suggest in your article about the confusion that arises from trying to figure out who exactly is in control here. You write, "it is practically impossible to get a clear answer to the simplest of questions. Who is running the country? Quite often the response is nervous laughter. There are shadow institutions everywhere -- regular courts and clerical courts, a regular army, and a revolutionary army, an elected Parliament, and a Clerical Council of Guardians".

KLEIN: And you know Paula ...

ZAHN: Who runs this place?

KLEIN: Well I think the safest bet is to say that Khatami, the supreme leader, is in charge. But people don't think very highly of him. They think he's kind of a mediocrity, and they often - I mean Iranians are very, very big conspiracy theorists, and they often talk about the dark forces and the dark forces in their minds are the security apparatus and the revolutionary guards, and some of the business interests.

They have these huge charitable trusts that fund terrorism among other things, and so they really feel that you can't ever quite know who's in charge there. But the one other fact that you really always have to keep in mind about Iran is that 70 percent of the country is under 30 years of age, and the young people just think that all this is absurd.

ZAHN: And before we let you go, I want you to provide some context to these reports that not only have there been allegedly numbers of al Qaeda leaders and Taliban slipping into Iran, there was also a report that Osama bin Laden made it to Iran, and he's hiding there. How seriously ...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... do you take any of these reports?

KLEIN: I think that that's entirely unlikely. The Iranians are Shiites. Taliban are Soonies (ph). The Iranians almost went to war with the Taliban three years ago after several Iranians were assassinated by the Taliban. They have absolutely no sympathy for al Qaeda. So I think that those reports are unlikely.

Other reports like the shipping of arms to the Palestinians are very likely. However, I think we've got to be careful about the kind of accusations that we make, and we're going to have to be very, very delicate in our diplomacy here not to offend the vast, vast numbers of people in that country who essentially want to be friendly with us, and to separate that from the very small ruling group that really wants to use us as an enemy to unite the nation.

ZAHN: Well you made some fascinating observations in your latest article in "The New Yorker", and I thought it was very - that you came up with an appropriate title called "Letter from Tehran, Shadow Land". Good to see you again Joe. Thanks for your insights this morning.

KLEIN: Thanks. Bye.

ZAHN: When's the next novel coming? We're going to have to wait for that. You remember what he did the last time around Anderson?

(CROSSTALK)

KLEIN: I've got a non-fiction book coming in a couple of weeks ...

ZAHN: With your name on it? With your name on the jacket? We'll see.

KLEIN: Of course ...

(CROSSTALK)

KLEIN: ... my name was on the last one. You can only do anonymous once in a lifetime.

ZAHN: Yes that's true. OK Joe, thanks. Anderson.

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