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American Morning
The Big Question: Is Something Wrong with Texas Jails?
Aired February 19, 2002 - 07:20 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The big question this morning, is something wrong with Texas jails? This morning there is another manhunt for a killer on the loose. Thirty-three-year-old John William Roland, a convicted murderer, escaped on Monday. He broke out of a maximum security prison near Abilene after overpowering a guard, stealing his uniform and driving away in his pickup truck.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a nice person. This is an escapee. He did beat this sergeant, who had to be taken by ambulance and luckily is going to survive.
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COOPER: The Texas jailbreak is the state's third in less than a month, which raises some serious questions about security in the state's jail system and whether prison guards are perhaps a weak link in the chain.
Joining us now from Austin, Charlie Wilkinson with CLEAT, which stands for the Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas. Also with us from Houston, bounty hunter Steve Hedrick.
Charlie, let me start with you. How was this convicted killer able to escape?
CHARLIE WILKINSON, CLEAT: Well, I think we're not in a full public safety crisis in Texas, but we're dang close. What we have, I think, overall is a system that's very stressed right now, the criminal justice system. We have, we're under staffed. We're under trained, underpaid. And I think you're having an environment inside Texas prisons where these officers in a reversal of fortunes in just seconds can have their lives placed on the line, be on the floor and be at the mercy of a convicted criminal.
I think also training...
COOPER: What is the training for these officers?
WILKINSON: .... is absolute utmost.
COOPER: What is the training for these officers? WILKINSON: Well, in county jails in Texas, for example, like the Montague County and the Hood County facility, you don't have to have any training prior to going to work in Texas. And the incredible part, I think, is that you had 48 in Montague County, 48 criminals facing one lone female guard. In a kindergarten class you have 22 5- year-olds and one teacher. It's just incredible what we've allowed to happen over time. And training...
COOPER: To what extent is over -- I'm sorry. To what extent is over crowding a problem?
WILKINSON: I think that over crowding is a minor problem, but the ultimate problem here, I believe, is that we don't have any value for the job, for the worker, that we don't see that as important. And it's so critical to the protection of our communities.
These officers sometimes make $20,000 a year. If it was a family of four, they would qualify for public assistance. It's just a shame.
COOPER: Steve Hedrick, what's your take on this? Does this make sense to you? Is there something broken in the prison system in Texas?
STEVE HEDRICK, BOUNTY HUNTER: I totally agree with what Mr. Wilkinson has just said. Although I've never worked in corrections, there's no way I'd want to be a corrections officer. I do have several friends that are with the Texas Department of Corrections and these individuals are grossly underpaid with what they have to endure every day when they go to work.
COOPER: Steve, how do authorities go about now trying to track down this convicted killer?
HEDRICK: Well, there's going to be a different level of investigations here. First, there's going to be the internal investigation conducted by the Department of Prisons as to could this possibly be an inside job. The second level of investigation is going to be conducted by the Texas Rangers, where they will fine tooth comb the background of this individual and obtain some kind of clues as to where his whereabouts are right now.
COOPER: The image father, Mr. Rollins' father says that his son will probably go into the woods and try to live as a hermit. What do you think the likelihood, Steve, is that this man is going to get caught, is going to be apprehended?
HEDRICK: I think the chances are very good of him being apprehended. In my 18 years of catching bad boys, my philosophy is that somebody always knows something. This individual will be in contact with somebody. He's probably contacted somebody before he even escaped. From what little I know about this individual's background, this individual is extremely intelligent. He knew what he was doing and that this was a one man show.
Somebody knows something. And the overall...
COOPER: All right, Charlie, I want to just...
HEDRICK: Overall, I think the...
COOPER: I'm sorry, Charlie, I just want to read you a statement made by the chairman of the state criminal justice board. He said, "Unfortunately these things do happen. It does not mean that the system is flawed. There is no such thing as an escape proof prison. These inmates have nothing to do but lie around and look for weaknesses and try to find gaps that they can take advantage of."
WILKINSON: The gaps they're taken advantage of, I think, is that we're looking at some sort of a hole in training. There's some sort of lapse there, either in retraining or original training. In the Montague County, where the female guard goes into the cell with two murderers to get a mop bucket and winds up being held hostage and then the day before yesterday in the state prison where you have the guard walking away to have a conversation with a murderer, I think that training is absolute and that staffing is absolute, too. If you had backup in either one of those cases, they probably wouldn't have happened.
COOPER: All right, Charlie Wilkinson, Steve Hedrick, thanks very much for joining us this morning.
WILKINSON: Thank you.
COOPER: It is an ongoing manhunt and we appreciate you taking the time to talk with us.
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