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American Morning

Harvard Education Program Director Discusses Supreme Court Voucher Case

Aired February 20, 2002 - 09:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The Supreme Court is about to begin hearings in a Cleveland, Ohio, case that centers on the separation of church and state. That could determine the future of one of the most controversial education reforms, school vouchers, using taxpayers' money to pay for private education.

Joining us now to talk more about this controversial issue is Paul Peterson, who has done an extensive study on the school voucher system. He joins us now from outside the Supreme Court building in Washington.

Thank you very much for being with us today.

PAUL PETERSON, DIRECTOR, HARVARD EDUCATION PROGRAM: Good morning, Paula. How are you today?

ZAHN: I am fine, thanks.

What I'd like to start off with today is by reading a very small portion of a "New York Times" editorial talking about this very issue. And they write, "Even if the voucher program not unconstitutional, however, we would object to it because it drains human and financial resources from public education without solving the real problems facing American education." What's your reaction to what "The New York Times" has to say about this?

PETERSON: You know, we're finding that African-American children are the ones who benefit the most from vouchers. The New York City data that we have shows some pretty big gains. And so these are families who have found that the New York public schools aren't working for them, and they're benefiting a lot if they can have a chance to go elsewhere.

The money follows the child, but that's the way it always has in American education. So if a school isn't doing its job, then the family might want to decide to go elsewhere, and the money should follow that child. It really doesn't drain the New York school system or any other school system of money, because they still have as much money per pupil as they always did.

ZAHN: We mentioned at the top of this that you've done an extensive study on this and the effectiveness of these programs. What was the most surprising thing you found? PETERSON: We thought that you would either get effects for all students or for no students at all, but what we found instead was that the effects were for African-American students. We didn't see any positive effects for Hispanic students in New York City. So this was a program that seems to have its initial positive effect on African- American students.

Of course, all families are very satisfied with their voucher opportunity. The satisfaction with school goes way up, and the amount of fighting, cheating, property destruction in the private school is so much less than in the public school. Classes are smaller. Schools are smaller.

So there's a lot of positive things for all kids. But on the test score side, it's the African-Americans that benefit, and that's the big surprise.

ZAHN: Paul, explain to us how that could be. Why would it be any less effective for Hispanic students?

PETERSON: It's hard to say exactly, but I think this more intimate environment, this more orderly environment, is something that the inner city African-American family benefits particularly from.

ZAHN: Elaborate on that. Why wouldn't Hispanic families benefit from the same thing?

PETERSON: Well, you would think so, and maybe they are, and maybe we just simply can't find it after three years. We have followed this pattern for three years. In the first year, we found positive gains for African-Americans. In the second year, we saw the same. In the third year, we saw even bigger ones. So when you do this kind of carefully controlled experiment like this, it's sort of like you know the pill works, but you don't know exactly why.

ZAHN: Paul, before we let you go, we know you have a pretty good sense of what will be said on both sides of this issue when the Supreme Court hears this case. How do you think the Supreme Court is likely to decide?

PETERSON: Well, I am going to walk in there in just a minute and listen to the questions the justices pose. I think it is going to be very close. I think the betting is that there is going to be a favorable ruling to allow some more pilot programs to go forward. I would be very surprised if the Supreme Court shut it down at this point in time.

ZAHN: All right. We'll let you get inside, and we'll continue to follow from here as well. Paul Peterson, Thank you very much for being with us this morning.

PETERSON: Thank you.

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