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American Morning

Israel Says It's Now in Full-Scale Guerilla War with Palestinians

Aired February 21, 2002 - 07:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to an alarming increase of violence in the Middle East. Israel says it is now engaged in a full- scale guerilla war with the Palestinians. Israeli helicopter gunships struck security and police targets earlier today, and Israeli troops and tanks made their deepest incursion in Gaza City in over 17 months of violence, all of this coming only hours before a major policy announcement.

CNN's Jerrold Kessel is standing by in Jerusalem with an update now -- good morning, Jerrold. You've got a lot to talk about, I know.

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula. Yes, indeed, it has been another night and morning of very vigorous activity. The Palestinians accusing the Israeli government of Ariel Sharon of unleashing an unremitting war to destroy the Palestinian Authority. That, as you reported, Israel saying that it is involved in a full-scale guerrilla war -- a counter guerrilla war with the Palestinians.

And if that is the face of this new war, there was some indication of at least one scene of that down in the town of Rafah in the southern part of Gaza, where Israeli tanks made one of those incursions. They said they were looking for arms smuggling from Egypt into the Gaza Strip. There were fierce gun battles then launched there, and as the Israeli tanks made those incursions, Palestinian gunmen firing at them in those exchanges. And we see some of the results of that: five Palestinians were killed, almost 20 wounded.

There was also an incident near a checkpoint on the Gaza -- on the West Bank-Israel border. Palestinians in a car approaching that checkpoint began shooting. The Israeli troops manning the checkpoint shot back. Two of the troops were wounded. Two Palestinians killed, one definitely one of the militants, another not clear if he was affiliated or an innocent bystander. But that's just an indication of just where things are going.

But Israel keeping up its unrelenting pressure as it mounted a series of pummeling air attacks, including on the base where Yasser Arafat is pinned up in the town of Ramallah on the West Bank -- Paula.

ZAHN: Jerrold Kessel -- appreciate that report.

And even as both sides appear to be getting closer to an all-out war, there is a new proposal for peace from Saudi Arabia. And for his views on the Middle East, let's turn to Richard Butler, our ambassador-in-residence -- good morning.

RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: A lot developments.

BUTLER: Absolutely. It's fascinating.

ZAHN: It's almost as though the Saudi Arabians were listening to you on Monday, when you talked about some of these plans in development that might lead to peace.

BUTLER: That's right.

ZAHN: What do you make of this Saudi Arabian overture?

BUTLER: It's fascinating. Let's just walk it through very quickly what happened. I mean, it's just fascinating. The journalist, Thomas Friedman, from "The New York Times" was in Saudi Arabia recently talking with Crown Prince Abdullah, who is the defector ruler of Saudi Arabia, and they talked about the problem. Friedman put forward an idea of immediate establishment of a Palestinian state, recognition of Israel by Arabs, Israel behind the 1967 borders but with some additional territory.

ZAHN: And some land swaps too.

BUTLER: And some land swaps, in return for which the Arabs would offer them peace, secure borders, resume trade and so on. Something like normalization, but leaving aside, as we are talking about this today, leaving aside the deeper problems of refugees and the status of Jerusalem for some time down the road.

The crown prince responded to this journalist by saying, "My god, you have read my speech..."

ZAHN: You broke into my desk.

BUTLER: ... "the one I have in my desk." And he then revealed that he was proposing or had in mind to propose exactly such an approach at the Arab Summit to take place next month in Beirut. Now, since this has been revealed by Friedman, Saudi Arabia, as a government, has acknowledged in public that it has in mind going this way.

Paula, this is a very serious proposal. Why? Because of the role that Saudi Arabia plays, not just what we see now with the Hajj and Mecca and all of the world's Muslims in their country, but the size of Saudi Arabia and the influence it has in the Arab world. Other Arab states were waiting to see which way Saudi Arabia would go. We now know. They have in mind leaping across this violence and putting on the table a month from now a very serious proposal.

ZAHN: I understand all of that, and yet you have people out there who are quite cynical about this proposal, including Shimon Peres...

BUTLER: Right.

ZAHN: ... who says he has doubts about this plan. And it begs the question: Where the heck were the Saudi Arabians two years ago at Camp David?

BUTLER: I agree.

ZAHN: The plan isn't essentially all that different from what was carved out then, is it?

BUTLER: Yes.

ZAHN: I mean, there is some...

BUTLER: I agree with that.

ZAHN: ... slight variation.

BUTLER: But let's you and I admit, the idea of being skeptical about this problem between Israel and Palestine is hardly new. It has been going on for 50 years, and you know, that's a kind of attitude that is justified. But this is different, because the circumstances are different.

And to answer your question directly, Saudi Arabia wasn't there a year ago, because it wasn't in the place that it is today in terms of its internal security, in terms of the real anxieties it has. That if this stuff keeps going on in Israel, and maybe if there is an attack upon Iraq, and they have mentioned that as a real problem to them, and in the light of this global action on terrorism and reactions within Saudi Arabia, that some of their population have in favor of Osama bin Laden. They are handling a real powder keg here, and they want to solve the problem. So that's what is different.

ZAHN: Which also you could talk about preservation of the monarchy. Is that what we are talking about here?

BUTLER: Yes, indeed. There are public opinion surveys that show that a lot of people in Saudi Arabia, ordinary people, are unhappy with their circumstances, have some sympathy for the Osama bin Laden approach to things. The ruling group in Saudi Arabia obviously has got its mind focused now on its future and on creating a situation, where it can survive in conditions of stability.

ZAHN: We need to quickly move on to the president's trip to Asia. He is now saying -- has encouraged the Chinese president to try to get him a meeting with the president of North Korea, this after all of this "axis of evil" fallout. What do you make of this overture?

BUTLER: Truth is stranger than fiction is what I make of it. I mean, it's extraordinary. We have been spending three weeks listening to explanations of "axis of evil," and why it was absolutely right, that these are evil countries and so on. And now, here is the president in Beijing saying to the Chinese, if you can fix a meeting for me and my folks, as he calls them, with the North Koreans, I would be eternally grateful.

Paula, international politics is like that. Don't look for consistency. Look for interests, and all I can say is that if this is the way to solve the North Korea problem, full marks to the president, really.

ZAHN: All right, Richard Butler...

BUTLER: OK.

ZAHN: ... thank you for covering so much ground this morning -- see you tomorrow morning.

BUTLER: OK.

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