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American Morning

Ashcroft Under Fire For Religious References on Public Platform

Aired February 21, 2002 - 09:38   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Attorney General John Ashcroft is under fire this morning for using a public platform to deliver what some say was a religious sermon. In a speech on Tuesday to the National Religious Broadcasters Association, Ashcroft cast the fight against terrorism in a religious context of good vs. evil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: But the call to defend civilization from terrorism resonates from a deeper source than our legal or even political institutions. Civilized individuals, Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the creator.

Governments may guard freedom. Governments don't grant freedom. All people are called to the defense of the grantor of freedom and the framework of freedom he created.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: The attorney general has been criticized in the past for mixing politics with religious and moral issues, but his latest comments, together with those of an Alabama Supreme Court justice, are raising some new questions about public figures using their own positions to impart their personal religious beliefs.

Joining us now from Washington, Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and Ken Connor, president of the Family Research Council. Welcome, gentlemen.

BARRY LYNN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE: Thank you.

KEN CONNOR, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Thank you.

ZAHN: Glad to have you with us this morning.

So Ken, I am going to start with you this morning. You just heard the Attorney General basically calling on all civilized individuals to understand that the creator, in his words, is the source of freedom and human dignity. Does he have the right to express those views in a public forum when he's been asked to address a crowd as the attorney general? CONNOR: Well, indeed he does, and he has done so in the finest American tradition, Paula. Both Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson acknowledged that our freedoms come from God, the Declaration of Independence declares that we are endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and that this endowment comes from our creator himself. When we see freedom as being endowed by God and not as a grant of government, we deem it to be more secure, and that's precisely what General Ashcroft has acknowledged.

ZAHN: But, Ken, what about the Hindus in America? What about the Buddhists, what about those people who simply don't believe in God?

CONNOR: Well, the round out of it is, in this case, I think General Ashcroft was quite inclusive. He made reference to Christians, Jews, and Muslims all recognizing the creator as the origin of freedom. Now, the reality of American history is that this nation was founded on a firm belief that we derive our rights from the creator. Now there may be those who don't think that, or don't affirm that, or believe it, but General Ashcroft is acting in the finest American tradition when he acknowledges that.

ZAHN: All right, Barry, you heard what Ken had to say, basically repeating what the Justice Department is saying, that the Attorney General was doing nothing more than making a multi-faith appeal for unity on the war on terrorism.

LYNN: It was an entirely inappropriate place for the attorney general to make this kind of a statement. You know, if he were to make that sermon, and that's really what it was, it contained more biblical references than a lot of priests and ministers use, indeed. In his church on Sunday, it would have been entirely appropriate.

When it comes to his position, though, as the attorney general of the United States, and it's in that capacity that he did appear at at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, he is supposed to be not preaching against terrorism, but talking about how people, in very practical fashion, can deal with crime and terrorism, so I thought it was highly inappropriate, and, as was pointed out, he only mentioned three faiths.

The last time I looked at the "Encyclopedia of Religion in America," I think there were 1,975 other faiths that he ignored in the process of this discussion.

ZAHN: All right. Now Barry, I am not sure I am following you. Are you basically saying it was inappropriate for him to touch on any religious groups at all in this speech?

LYNN: Well, I think what he actually said was all people of faith -- and then he mentioned Muslims, Christians, and Jews, but of course there are many people of faith in this country who don't follow one of those three traditions.

And, of course, the reason that is of any importance is that the attorney general in the past has been criticized by me and by many other people for a failure to understand the two roles, that he does have a personal life, a personal spiritual life to which he is, of course, entitled, but when he speaks for the American government, for the U.S. government as attorney general, he is not supposed to be getting paid to give sermons, he's supposed to be fighting crime.

And I think it was deeply insensitive, and it gets to the point where I go back a year and say, if John Ashcroft really wants to be a preacher of the Christian faith, maybe he should be a pastor, and not the attorney general of the United States.

CONNOR: Paula...

ZAHN: All right.

CONNOR: Barry would levy these same criticisms against George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton. All of these men attested to the importance and role of the Bible as the cornerstone of liberty, to the origin of our freedom being rooted in our creator, God. To a recognition...

LYNN: Well, I didn't know them.

CONNOR: ...to a recognition that governments don't grant freedoms and individual rights, they are originate with God, and that which government doesn't grant, it ought not to be permitted to take away.

LYNN: Well, the Constitution...

ZAHN: All right, Barry, I can give you about 15 seconds for a closing thought here.

LYNN: The Constitution, of course, is not based on any particular religious idea. It is based on the idea that all people of all faiths and of no faiths stand equal before the courts and before the justice system. And I do think that the attorney general has once again crossed the line in taking what is essentially his biblical, religious view and trying to use it, not our Constitution, to justify his actions...

ZAHN: All right.

LYNN: ...and that's just wrong for a public official at taxpayer expense.

ZAHN: Well, Ken Conner and Barry Lynn, we have to leave it there this morning. You certainly have given us a very good idea of why this debate is so heated. We appreciate both of your perspectives this morning.

CONNOR: Thank you.

ZAHN: Thank you.

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