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American Morning

Sen. Leahy Discusses Bush Court Nominee

Aired March 07, 2002 - 08:18   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is trying to rescue the nomination of Charles Pickering for the federal appeals court. A Senate Judiciary Committee vote is expected in just a matter of hours. While opposition from senate Democrats may block the Pickering appointment, the president is not giving up the fight.

Here's CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an 11th hour push to save a troubled judicial nomination, President Bush is calling in the Democrats.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a good, honorable man, who should be approved by the United States Senate. Otherwise, we wouldn't have a Democrat attorney general, a very popular former governor, Al Gore's brother-in-law, all of whom have stood up and said the man need's to be confirmed.

KARL: That's right, Al Gore's brother-in-law, the former assistant attorney general at Gore's side throughout the 2000 presidential race. He wrote a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee calling Judge Charles Pickering a person of great integrity. But Democrats on Capitol Hill have portrayed Pickering as an anti- woman, anti civil rights judge with questionable ethics.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Those who have examined his record very closely are convinced that he's probably incapable of upholding the civil rights laws as they ought to be interpreted.

KARL: Pickering also faces the vocal and virtually unanimous opposition of national civil rights groups and the Congressional Black Caucus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are in the new millennium, where we expect that women get fair treatment, minorities get fair treatment in rulings, and civil rights should be respected. And he simply doesn't have a record of doing that.

KARL: But the White House has dispatched the civil rights leaders who say they know Pickering best -- those from his home state of Mississippi to Capitol Hill to support his nomination. Also, people like Michael Moore, the Democrat who led the state lawsuits against the tobacco companies.

MICHAEL MOORE, MISSISSIPPI ATTORNEY GENERAL: The attorney general's office probably handles more cases before Judge Pickering than any other group of people. So when I talked to my lawyers and they all -- black and white -- tell me that he is fair, unbiased and not prejudiced, that ought to carry some weight.

KARL: To respond to charges Judge Pickering supported a ban on interracial marriage back in 1959, the White House brought out Charles Evers, the brother of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers.

CHARLES EVERS, BROTHER OF MEDGAR EVERS: So (UNINTELLIGIBLE) back to '59. We are about changes, and Mississippi has changed. And whatever he was then, he's not that now.

KARL (voice-over): Privately, Republicans on Capitol Hill say the White House push for Pickering is too little, too late. With a vote expected Thursday, Democrats appear to have the votes to hand the president his first defeat of a judicial nomination. A defeat Democrats hope will send a message about future judicial picks, especially any nominations to the Supreme Court.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us now from Capitol Hill is Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy from Vermont. He happens to be the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Welcome back. Good to see you again.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Good to be with you.

ZAHN: So Sen. Leahy, what is it that you expect your committee to do later today? Will this nomination survive?

LEAHY: Well, it depends on whether we vote on it today. We were supposed to vote on it last week. Sen. Lott asked me if, as a courtesy , I could put the vote on this week instead of last week. Naturally, he's a Republican leader, and I accorded him that courtesy with the understanding we'd vote on it today.

Now, of course, if the Republicans want to delay it again another week, they could, although that wouldn't make much sense. We should either vote it up or down. If there -- once there is a vote in the committee, I suspect that Judge Pickering will remain as a federal district judge, a lifetime appointment, who would not become a federal court appeals judge.

ZAHN: All right, so what you're essentially telling me, if your committee votes him down, he will never get a full hearing in the -- in the Senate.

LEAHY: No, the hearings are in the Judiciary Committee and ... ZAHN: Right.

LEAHY: ... he's had two very full hearings there, and he's -- you know he will be -- if he's voted down, that would be it. That has been the practice for over 100 years in the -- in the Senate, but I have done, though, there is a difference now with the Democrats leading the Judiciary Committee. We've ended the era of secret holes that were imposed during the last six years by the Republicans when they controlled the committee. People get hearings now, and then they have votes up and down. In fact, they're, as of this week, we'll have nearly 40 of President Bush's judges, would have had hearings, would have had votes, but both Democrats and Republicans and been confirmed. And the vast majority of them were conservative Republicans, I might point out.

ZAHN: So, Senator, is this payback time, because I'm going to put on the screen something else that you said along these lines, where you said, "The only thing that is different under Democratic leadership, that is even controversial nominations like this one are getting hearings and votes these days, which is far more than dozens of President Clinton's nominees got from a Republican Senate".

LEAHY: I don't ...

ZAHN: Is this payback time?

LEAHY: No, I've been here 27 years, and I think people who know me well enough know I don't engage in payback of any sort. In fact, I've tried to change the tone. I've gotten rid of the secret holes that the Republicans used to have. I've tried to arrange virtually all of the president's nominees will get hearings, something that wasn't afforded to President Clinton.

In fact, I think 50 or 60 of President Clinton's nominees never got a final vote or a hearing and a final vote. I don't intend to do that. In fact we've been working very hard to get hearings and vote on everybody. But once the committee votes, that's it.

That's the way it has always been. I suspect that's the way it always will be, but in Judge Pickering's case, he's had very solid hearings and there have been some very troubling questions have been raised, not the least of which is the fact that this is a man who says that he will follow past decisions, but he's been overturned time and time again by the very conservative of his circuit because he wouldn't even follow their opinion. In fact, he's overturned twice on the same issue. I think this -- he sort of marches to a different drummer, and he cites his -- how he's going to vote. I think the ...

ZAHN: All right ...

LEAHY: ... mistake that the White House has made, they've been trying to argue that he's not a -- not a racist, but nobody's called him a racist. Nobody considers him a racist. The question is on competence to be on a court that's just one step below the Supreme Court. ZAHN: All right, I want to just close real quickly with what Charles Evers had to say in an impassioned speech. He happens to be the brother of slain Civil Rights leader Medgar Evers, and he said -- quote -- "When it wasn't popular for whites in Mississippi to stand up for fairness to blacks, Judge Pickering did. He went after the Ku Klux Klan in 1967, which was unheard of then".

Even though you deny this has anything to do with race, isn't that what the majority of criticism was all about, the implication ...

LEAHY: Absolutely ...

ZAHN: ... that ...

LEAHY: Absolutely not.

ZAHN: ... in some way Judge Pickering is a racist?

LEAHY: No. No, absolutely not, and nobody considers him a racist. I certainly, as a chairman, I certainly don't. The question is on competence and also his ethical conduct in soliciting endorsements for this nomination. I think the red herring has been caused by the White House keep saying we can prove he's not a racist. Heck, I'll conceive that. Nobody's ever considered him a racist.

ZAHN: All right, we're going to have to leave the debate there this morning. Sen. Leahy, always good to have you on AMERICAN MORNING.

LEAHY: Good to be here.

ZAHN: We'll be watching your committee closely later today.

LEAHY: Thank you.

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