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American Morning

Interview with Blake Morrison, Reynold Hoover

Aired March 26, 2002 - 09:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Are the nation's airports any safer now than they were on September 11? Well, this morning, there are some serious questions about security lapses following a report that baggage screeners failed on dozens of occasions to detect guns, knives, and simulated explosives. Here is Mark Potter's report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): According to a classified government memo, first reported in "USA Today" and confirmed by CNN, federal investigators went undercover at 32 U.S. airports from November to mid-February. They found failures nationwide, despite a heightened state of alert after September 11.

MICHAEL JACKSON, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: We put the smartest people that we could find and trained them very aggressively on how to penetrate the system and asked them to work as hard as they could to find vulnerabilities.

POTTER: Vulnerabilities were widespread. The memo says investigators smuggled guns passed airport security screeners in 30 percent of the tests. Simulated explosives passed through undetected in 60 percent of the tests. Knives made it through security 70 percent of the time. And investigators gained access to airport tarmacs or secretly boarded aircraft in 48 percent of the undercover tests.

Charles Slepian, a private security consultant, says he is not surprised.

CHARLES SLEPIAN, FORESEEABLE RISK ANALYSIS CENTER: You have amateurs doing the job that requires professionals, and until we put professionals both on the screening process and into the procedural aspects of it and the supervision of it, you can expect that this will continue into the future.

POTTER: Government officials say the undercover tests were ordered by President Bush to assess airport security and were completed before February 17, when the federal government took control of airport screening. White House spokesman, Ari Fleischer, says security improvements are under way.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This week, for example, marks the beginning of a comprehensive training program for the first wave of senior federal security screeners, who are now going to be deployed at airports around the country, and that's going to be some 300 people per week for the next four weeks.

POTTER: Eight new airport security directors have already been sworn in, and 30,000 screeners will be hired by the federal government and trained more thoroughly than before. Those currently on the job will have to reapply.

(on camera): Critics say in the meantime, U.S. airports remain vulnerable. Federal investigators say they have not conducted any more undercover tests since February, but plan to resume them to see if changes in personnel, training and equipment actually lead to tighter security.

Mark Potter, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now to talk more about concerns over airport security, from Jacksonville, Florida, counterterrorism expert, Reynold Hoover, and from Washington, D.C., the reporter who broke the story for "USA Today," Blake Morrison. Gentlemen, welcome to "American Morning." Nice to have you with us.

REYNOLD HOOVER, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: Thank you, good morning.

CAFFERTY: Reynold, let me start with you. Ted -- or Pat, put that full screen back on. This is outrageous. This is absolutely outrageous. 30 percent of the time, guns got through. 60 percent of the time, knives got through. 70 percent of the time, simulated explosives got through, and almost half the time, these guys could get access to the tarmac and actually board the aircraft, and this is after September 11. Where do we start here? I mean, this is terrible.

HOOVER: Well, you know, Blake's story certainly is compelling, but I think what it shows is several things. One, it certainly indicates the reason why the Transportation Security Administration was formed to correct the deficiencies.

The second thing I think it shows is that, prior to September 11 and after September 11, the people that we were critical of doing the screening, were still doing that job. Their level of proficiency and their level of -- ability to detect and prevent firearms and explosives from getting on aircraft wasn't any better. But now, I think, with the TSA on board, I think they are moving in the right direction.

CAFFERTY: But isn't it reasonable to expect that it would have gotten better?

HOOVER: You would think...

CAFFERTY: They knocked the World Trade Center down with a couple of hijacked airplanes. Wouldn't you think everybody would be paying a little more attention? And if not, why were they still there?

HOOVER: Well, I think the astounding thing, which was in Blake's article, was that, given the high state of alert that we were under at the time, and indeed, I think there were several threat warnings put out by the White House and the FBI during that period of time, you would have thought we were at the highest level of security that we could be at.

CAFFERTY: And it turns out that it was just business as usual. Might as well have been last 4th of July, right?

HOOVER: Seems that way.

CAFFERTY: Unbelievable. Blake, let me ask you. What was your initial reaction to this thing, and what other pieces of information are worth sharing with our viewers this morning that we didn't include in that full screen graphic?

BLAKE MORRISON, "USA TODAY": Well, I think Reynold is right when he says these are the same people who were in charge of security before the terrorist attacks. You can't expect, of course, things to change overnight. But I think what is probably...

CAFFERTY: Wait a second, wait a second. Why can't we expect things to change overnight? Everything changed overnight. September 11. Aren't we entitled to expect that, perhaps, the people that are paid to protect the airports might be paying a little more attention September 12 than they were September 10?

MORRISON: What I think these tests show is they don't know what to pay attention to. I mean, clearly, they couldn't spot knives. That is something that they were never trained to do...

CAFFERTY: Then what were they doing there? I mean, I'm not jumping ugly with you. But, you say they were never trained to do this, so what are they being paid for?

MORRISON: Well, remember, before September 11, knives were not prohibited items. The only kind of knives that were prohibited were knives of a certain length blade, or a serrated edge. So 70 percent of knives getting through -- these are people who were in this job but never trained to see that.

I think the other big issue, of course, is that 60 percent of simulated explosive devices got through. Now, those are things they should well have been trained to see. And that is a very good question as to why they still aren't.

CAFFERTY: Either of you can answer this, but do either of you think it is going to be appreciably different now that the jurisdiction over this has changed?

MORRISON: Well, let me jump in there first. I think part of the problem here is, you have a whole bunch of employees. They can't just make a wholesale change out there because they don't have people to take these jobs. I mean, you get all these people out of their jobs, who are you going to have fill them? They still have to train people, they still have to get these people better, and I think what you are going to see is, it is going to take quite some time, and what Reynold would call a very ambitious training plan, to get these folks up to speed.

HOOVER: Well, let me just add, too, that John Magaw came from the Secret Service, and then he went to ATF, and I think he has brought in the right people as the head of the Transportation Security Administration to undertake that plan, and I think they are going to be on track to deliver, by November, all of those trained people. And as Blake said, this is not something that is going to happen overnight.

CAFFERTY: By this coming November?

HOOVER: Yes. And I think there's another important point here. There is no technology out there available that is going to detect and prevent firearms and explosives from getting on board the aircraft. Aviation security is a layered process that has to involve not only technology, but the people element.

We're in the process of training the people now to be proficient, and to increase the standards, and that's why the TSA is here, but really what we need now is a national strategy, delivered from the White House, to direct the implementation of research and development, and the deployment of these detection technologies, so that we can now combine the best of technology with the best of people to protect our skies.

CAFFERTY: And better, I guess, late than never. But it seems like there's a certain urgency, based on the results of this story that Blake did. Gentlemen, thank you, we've got to stop there. Appreciate both of you coming on.

HOOVER: Thank you very much.

CAFFERTY: Blake Morrison, who broke the story for "USA Today" and Reynold Hoover is a counterterrorism expert. Thanks a lot for joining us here this morning.

MORRISON: Thank you.

HOOVER: Thank you.

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