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American Morning

Interview with Martin Indyk, Former U.S. Ambassador to Israel

Aired April 01, 2002 - 07:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The big question this hour: Can the U.S. make any difference in the Middle East? Israeli tanks and troops are on the move again, entering the West Bank towns of Bethlehem and Qalqilya.

The military maneuvers are the latest step in what Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says is a war aimed at uprooting the infrastructure of terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The state of Israel is in a war, a war against terrorism. It's a war that has been imposed upon us. It's not one that we have chosen to under take. It's a war for our home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And Sharon says Yasser Arafat is to blame, but Arafat, who remains holed up in his compound in Ramallah, says that the Israeli aggression amounts to a Palestinian holocaust.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YASSER ARAFAT, PALESTINIAN LEADER: They have mentioned that the Nazis have brought (ph) the names. What did they have done with our people? We have done the same, which the Nazis have done for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And Arafat is calling on international forces to end Israel's military escalation.

Joining us now from Tel Aviv is the former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk, a man who has negotiated with five different Israeli prime ministers -- glad to have you back on AM -- thank you very much for your time this morning, sir.

MARTIN INDYK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: So, Mr. Indyk, we even heard members of Ariel Sharon's own government say over the weekend they are very troubled by the fact they do not think there is any end game here. Are you equally concerned?

INDYK: Well, I am concerned about what the end game actually is, because I think that the Israeli government having decided that Arafat is the enemy and the prime minister, as you just played, making clear yesterday that he regards Arafat as the source of all of the terrorism, I think that the prime minister is sorely tempted to seek an end game, which involves evicting Yasser Arafat from the territories and essentially trying to start again on the ashes of the Oslo agreement. And it's not clear what exactly could be done at that point.

But I think that the Israelis, in the face of these repeated terrorist bombings with the horrendous death toll, have reached the point where they don't see Arafat as part of the solution anymore. They don't see him as a viable negotiating partner, not as somebody who is prepared to stop the violence of terrorism. And so, I think that we're looking at a situation where they will act on their own to stop the terrorism as best they can with the Israeli army. And then the question of Arafat's future very much hangs in the balance today.

ZAHN: Well, it would appear as though Mr. Sharon's ability to evict Yasser Arafat is all but gone. Isn't it true that his government didn't allow that to happen among the harshest voices against that action, Shimon Peres?

INDYK: Well, if the suicide bombings continue, I think that the opposition to that is likely to decrease. I think for the moment, the decision is to isolate him, leave him there and do the job themselves. But it still leaves the big question of what happens then? What is the political path out of this crisis? And that's what Israelis are basically asking once they get past the question of how to protect their own security. And of course, the Palestinians are concerned about that as well.

And that's where I think the United States comes in. We have to find a way, not only to get the parties to stop the fighting and get the Palestinians in particular to stop the violence and terrorism, but we have got to find a way to put forward a political pathway out of this crisis.

ZAHN: That may be true, but you have people like Hanan Ashrawi, a Palestinian legislator, basically saying yesterday all day long on television that Yasser Arafat cannot stop the violence, because his infrastructure has been so degraded, she says, he has no ability to do that.

And she claims that people are so frustrated by occupation, there is no hope left at all, so suicide bombing to them seems to be a reasonable solution. And you know, what about the reports that Yasser Arafat can't even recharge his cell phone this morning? He can't control these people, can he?

INDYK: Well, he certainly could have, and he certainly had plenty of opportunities to do that. He had plenty of opportunities just recently through the proposal put forward by General Zinni to accept a cease-fire arrangement, which would have led to reciprocal steps. When he had to arrest the killers of the Israeli cabinet minister after three months of claiming that he couldn't do it, he ended up doing it.

Certainly today, he is in a very difficult situation to be issuing orders and getting his people to act. But the security forces that respond to his orders are still on the ground there. There are about nine security services that answer directly to him, and if it's a matter of getting a new cell phone so he can issue clear orders to them, something he has refused to do in the past, I am sure that that can be arranged.

The question is not, I think, one of capability. It is much more a question of intention. He hasn't been prepared to confront the perpetrators of the violence and terrorism, including people in his own Fatah organization. They think they have a winning strategy that through violence and terrorism, they can force Israel to withdraw. And while they think they have that winning strategy, his unwillingness to confront them and tell them that this is doing great damage to the Palestinian cause has meant that the fighting has continued.

ZAHN: All right. Martin Indyk, we are going to have to leave it there this morning. As always, we appreciate your perspective. You are able to cut through the complicated arguments being made on both sides -- thank you again for joining us.

INDYK: Thank you.

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