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American Morning

Israeli Attack Helicopters and Palestinians Exchange Gunfire Near Manger Square

Aired April 02, 2002 - 07:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Today in Bethlehem, Israeli attack helicopters and Palestinians exchanged gunfire near Manger Square. And in Ramallah, a Palestinian security compound is under attack as the Israelis search for terrorists.

We have live reports coming up from that region. Let's start with CNN's Michael Holmes. He joins us from Ramallah, where Arafat's top lieutenants are now being hunted by Israeli forces. Mike Hanna will be joining us from Jerusalem. Once again, let's start with Michael Holmes. What is the latest from there, Michael? Good morning.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Paula. Yes, well, it has been quite an eventful night here. Israeli forces making a sustained attack on the Preventative Security headquarters. It's a key Palestinian facility. It's a large compound. It includes administrative offices, and it includes a prison.

Now, we heard numerous tank shells being fired, heavy machine gun fire. This compound is about a mile from where we are broadcasting to you at the moment. We also heard light-arms fire.

And one thing that we haven't seen in the last five days, Israeli Apache helicopter gunships firing, at least by my count, seven or eight rockets into the compound. A fire broke out. Apart from that, it has been very difficult to ascertain if there have been any casualties inside there.

Jabril Rajoub, who is the head of Preventative Security, says there are 400 people in there, including women staff and also some of their children, because they thought it was safer to be in there.

Israel says there are known and wanted terrorists inside this compound, people that they say are wanted for planning suicide bombings and the like. Palestinians, however, point out that this is, in fact, a prison, and that these people are under Palestinian custody and in many cases were arrested at the request of Israeli security officials and the United States in fact.

The head of Preventative Security, Jabril Rajoub, spoke to us from the compound last night on numerous occasions describing Israeli forces moving towards the compound and the firing going on. It is at this stage unclear, but we think unlikely that Israeli forces have actually entered the compound, despite the attacks on it.

So it has been a very, very busy day -- lots of tanks and armored personnel carriers moving around. We saw numerous troops being let out of armored personnel carriers right behind me here, and Palestinians now entering their fifth day behind closed doors -- Paula.

ZAHN: Michael Holmes -- thanks for that update. Let's quickly check in with Mike Hanna, who joins us from Jerusalem with the very latest on this one-way ticket offer by Prime Minister Sharon. What's going on?

MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAH CHIEF: Well, Paula, the Israeli prime minister finally spoke publicly about his plans to send Yasser Arafat to exile. He was visiting an Israeli military base on the West Bank, and he said in response to several requests by international representatives or European representatives that they visit Arafat. He said that they could do so under conditions. The condition would be that Arafat leave with them.

Now, he said that Arafat could only leave on three conditions, more conditions from the Israeli prime minister. Firstly, that it has to be discussed by the Israeli cabinet. Secondly, that only Arafat leave the compound, that others with him stay behind. And thirdly, that he leave on a "one-way ticket," were Sharon's words, that he not return.

Now, there has been an immediate Palestinian response to this, saying that Yasser Arafat will not go into exile under any conditions.

But also, ongoing violence in other parts of the West Bank apart from Ramallah. And a very serious incident in the West Bank city of Bethlehem, where reports indicate that a Catholic priest at the Santa Maria Church has been killed in ongoing fighting there. The priest, an Italian birth (ph) of American citizenship, was killed in that fighting. Palestinians say he was killed in a tank shell fired at the church. However, the Israeli Defense Force says it is absolutely certain that he was, in fact, killed by Palestinian militants.

So once again, a very serious incident unfolding in a series of days in which there have been so many serious incidents as this violence continues to escalate -- Paula.

ZAHN: Out of curiosity, Mike, if Arafat had accepted Sharon's offer, where is it that the Israelis expected him to go?

HANNA: Well, that's a moot point. Arafat has made absolutely clear that this is not even seen as an offer. It is not seen as a viable option. The Europeans who have been asking to see him are from several European countries, as well as a United Nations representative. So as far as the Palestinians are concerned and Arafat himself, that is an absolute non-start (ph). And incidentally, the Israeli foreign minister, Shimon Peres, has made quite clear that he doesn't believe it's a viable option either, so he is likely to oppose it, when the cabinet meets later on in the days ahead. ZAHN: Mike, if you could, try to shed some light in a report that's in "USA Today" on a front-page story suggesting that some people think that some of this recent violence is an attempt to derail a military intelligence gathering operation between the Palestinians and the Israelis that it was agreed to with Anthony Zinni, the mediator over there. Is this true?

HANNA: Well, I don't think that one can get quite so specific, Paula. But certainly, what has appeared to have been the case, not only on this occasion of Zinni's visit, but on previous times that Zinni came into the region. Zinni himself said at that stage that there were elements among the Palestinians who were intent on disrupting all his attempts to get a cease-fire in place. Zinni was absolutely convinced that it was no coincidence that there would be a massive upsurge in violence when he got into the region.

Now, this has happened again on this Zinni trip. This is his third such mission to the region. And he is absolutely convinced, and many observers are too, that there is an absolute intent by some sectors of Palestinians to disrupt the cease-fire process. So that is what Zinni himself believes, and it is exceedingly likely -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right. Mike Hanna, we are going to leave it there, because standing by in the wings is Secretary of State Colin Powell. Thanks so much for that update.

The big question this morning: Should the secretary of state go to the Middle East? Well, last night on "LARRY KING LIVE," former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said he should go, that the Bush administration must get more involved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: I understand that Secretary Powell is going to be on the morning shows tomorrow, and I hope very much that he is going to tell us that he is going to the region, because ultimately, I think as hard as it is for any secretary of state to get fully involved in this, because it sucks up all of the time. I just think it's very, very important for the secretary to be a part of the discussions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And joining us now from the State Department is Secretary of State Colin Powell -- welcome back -- good to see you again, sir.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Hi, Paula. How are you?

ZAHN: I am fine, thanks. So you just heard what your predecessor had to say last night. Will you be traveling to the region?

POWELL: I think that Madeleine was saying that I should be deeply involved in the process, and I am deeply involved in the process. And the process was producing results up until last week. As a result of the United States efforts, both at the level of the president, the vice president and myself and my colleagues, we had helped the Arab shape a summit last week that endorsed Crown Prince Abdullah's vision of peace and all of the Arab nations recognizing Israel and having normal relations. We had succeeded in putting together a U.N. resolution two weeks ago that called for the creation of a Palestinian state and a cease-fire. We had succeeded through our efforts with Prime Minister Sharon to encourage him to set aside his requirement for seven days of quiet. We sent the vice president to the region, and he showed a willingness to return to the region to meet with Chairman Arafat if some conditions were met.

And then, because both sides indicated they were ready to get started again, we sent General Zinni to the region, ready to start the Tenet work plan, which is the work plan that allows both sides to take steps that will lead to a cease-fire, and then rapidly through that cease-fire to the Mitchell process, which rapidly gets us into a political process in negotiations.

All of those things were entrained. The United States to include your secretary of state was deeply involved in it. And then, it all came apart (ph) last week, when we had the Passover massacre, and 22 Israelis were killed in a suicide bomb. Suicide bombs that are going off at a rate of one a day, these actions perpetrated by terrorists, who do not want to see General Zinni succeed, do not want to see the Mitchell plan or the Tenet work plan succeed, destroying the vision of the Palestinian people and killing innocent Israelis.

I am prepared to go anywhere, anytime when it serves a useful purpose, but I can assure you that I am deeply engaged every day for hours for the day, as are my colleagues in the Bush administration, to include the president.

ZAHN: Secretary Powell, do you think it was helpful this morning that Ariel Sharon offered, once again, Mr. Arafat exile? Is that going to move the two sides any closer to the peace table?

POWELL: Oh, I don't think it will have any effect one way or the other. Chairman Arafat is head of the Palestinian Authority, and he is recognized whether you approve of it or not as the leader of the Palestinian people. And he will be the leader of the Palestinian people whether he is sitting in Ramallah or whether he is sitting in some exile location elsewhere in the Middle East or somewhere in Europe. He will still have that role.

So it seems to me let's deal with him where he is, and let's continue to apply pressure to him and other leaders of the Palestinian people to get into the Tenet work plan. In due course, the Israeli Defense Forces will finish the military actions they have under way. They are trying to uproot terrorist infrastructure, seize weapons, things of that nature. That will come to an end. They have no intention of staying in those occupied areas. It's not something over time.

And when they withdraw, we will find that we are going to need a political process to move forward, and that process is there waiting. It is the Tenet work plan. It is the Mitchell peace process, which gives us a political solution or a route to a political solution, and the United States will be engaged. General Zinni will be engaged. I will be engaged. And when it is useful for people to travel, such as the vice president did two weeks, ago, we will travel.

ZAHN: I know the president has been loath to call Yasser Arafat a terrorist, because he has said he has signed onto the peace process. But how many more days of these kinds of activities, suicide bombings, can go on before you will declare him a terrorist?

POWELL: Well, these are terrorist activities, and we condemn them. There is no question what they are. They are killing innocent civilians. But Chairman Arafat still has a legitimate role within the Palestinian movement, and we think at this point, it is best to deal with him in that role and see if we can move the process forward rather than to designate him as such.

ZAHN: OK, our time is up. Secretary Powell, thank you for joining us this morning on AMERICAN MORNING -- always appreciate your presence here.

POWELL: Thank you very much.

ZAHN: Good luck.

POWELL: Thank you.

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