Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Former National Security Adviser Discusses Middle East Violence

Aired April 02, 2002 - 09:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us now with more on the violence in the Middle East is Ben Wedeman in Jerusalem.

Good morning, Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Paula.

Well, yes, on the topic of suicide bombers, we do know that Iraq does, in fact, provide payments to the families of people killed in the uprising. We know that, in fact, the Palestinian authority provides money to those families and also that it provides money to those who are injured. In fact, in parenthesis, after I was shot a year-and-a-half ago, somebody asked me if I received my $300 for being injured, of course, I didn't accept it. But this is phenomenon that does exist.

However, there's a good deal of question as to whether the money actually inspires the bombers to go out. One who would have to ask whether it's worth losing one's life for $25,000. The fact of the matter is that even though we don't agree with their methods, that most of these people are actually convinced of the cause. It -- there's also one version of the reasons, the inspiration for these bombers is that some of them want to get the 72 virgins that are waiting them after they die in heaven according to Islam.

But in fact, that's the not the case. These people actually do believe in their cause as much as many of the people around the world vehemently disagree with those methods -- Paula.

ZAHN: And give us an update, if you would, on the prime minister's offer of removing Yasser Arafat from the compound, allowing him to freely travel to another country and not letting him come back.

WEDEMAN: Yes. The Israeli prime minister did make this proposal, we might call it, that basically, in his words, it was a one-way ticket out. And of course the Israeli or rather the Palestinian -- the Palestinian officials have flatly rejected that. At this point, Mr. Arafat may be confined to just a room or two in his headquarters in Ramallah, but the fact of the matter is, he is riding very high right now in Palestinian public opinion and wider Arab public opinion. This may be the last chapter of his political life and he seems to be milking it for all it's worth. He has become a symbol for many Palestinians, for many Arabs and for many Muslims as well of resistance of defiance and the longer he stays cooped up essentially under house arrest by the Israelis and refuses to accept this proposal by Mr. Sharon the more popular he will become -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right. We're going to leave it there this morning. Ben Wedeman, thanks so much.

In the Middle East this morning, Israeli military is again hitting Palestinian targets in the West Bank. As Ben just described, there have been some new attacks in Bethlehem and in Ramallah where security headquarters building came under fire from Israeli helicopter gun ships. Now some critics say the U.S. should be doing more to end the violence. But earlier here, on American Morning, Secretary of State Colin Powell said he and the Bush Administration have been fully engaged in trying to get a ceasefire in the region.

Former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski has been one of those most critical of the Bush Mideast policy, calling it strategic incoherence and Mr. Brzezinski joins us this morning from Washington. Welcome back. Good to see you, sir.

ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Good morning.

ZAHN: So Mr. Brzezinski first of all your reaction to news that Colin Powell made this morning that he does not intend to go to region anytime soon.

BRZEZINSKI: Well, that's consistent with the policy of the administration, which is essentially one of relative disengagement, passivity, and some contradictory signals just consider the following of the last few days. The president, in effect, wins if what Mr. Sharon decided to do. Then the United States goes to the U.N. and votes for a U.N. Security Council resolution telling the Israelis to get out. Then the president goes on the tube, again, and says that everything depends on whether Mr. Arafat does what he is told to do. Then the spokesman for the White House and I just quote him right here says, yesterday "the president does believe that a path to peace goes through Chairman Arafat."

So what is it? I think we know what Arafat is about. We have known that for years. We know what Sharon is trying to do. He's been doing it consistently for ten years. But it's far less clear what it is that the United States wants to do. And in the meantime, the situation is getting more violent, potentially more dangerous.

ZAHN: What the secretary of state told me earlier this morning was that the Israelis will not stay in the West Bank forever. He didn't give a timetable from the withdrawal but clearly said they eventually will leave. And then implied that you know, a ceasefire will come. And talk of the Tenet and Mitchell plans will continue. You don't see that happening?

BRZEZINSKI: Well, do you find that very convincing? Staying there not forever is not exactly a very clear definition of how long they might stay. I think Mr. Sharon probably has some rather different ideas on this subject. Also how do you negotiate with Mr. Arafat if on the one hand you smash whatever authority he has, whatever organization he has, if you humiliate him or even threaten his life. And in the meantime, make him a potentially a martyr and in the meantime a hero of the most extremist elements and give him an incentive to be rigid and extremist. This policy, to me, literally doesn't make much sense.

ZAHN: But as you know, there are still people out there who believe that Yasser Arafat is capable of doing much more than his people say he is at the moment. That he could pick up the cell phone and control the actions of nine different security agencies. You don't buy that?

BRZEZINSKI: Well, what phone is he supposed to pick up? Isolated in a room and what security agencies is he supposed to instruct to do what? These agencies are being destroyed. The Palestinian police is being arrested or even shot in some cases. His colleagues are threatened or under arrest. I mean this is some sort of illusion. It's really bad for him. And it is noteworthy that no one in the world agrees with this. Kofi Annan, the United Nations, the Europeans, not to mention the Arab's whose reaction is, of course, predictable, although, it is regrettable that the offer, the initiative taken by the Saudis has not been pushed aside.

But the basic point is that the United States is passive and I'm sorry to say and I will repeat the word even though I'm sure it's not going to win me any friends in the administration, I think the position on this issue really is incoherent.

ZAHN: All right. You have obviously -- have you heard any reaction from the White House when you said in the past?

BRZEZINSKI: Well I have many friends in the White House. I was -- I actually think this team is very able -- very able people. So I'm sorry to be saying this. But I do see here a drift towards an abyss. And the creation of such hostility towards Israel among its neighbors that it will be very difficult to envision a real peace unless the United States rapidly and quickly steps into the breach and stops this madness because what is happening right now is really madness unleashed.

ZAHN: All right. Well, Secretary of State Colin Powell obviously defends the fact that he says his administration has stepped into the breech. But before we let you go this morning, what could be one step the United States could take that would break this impasse?

BRZEZINSKI: At the very least explicitly and more fully, articulate what it's concept of a real settlement is because as things stand now neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians, certainly not Mr. Sharon and certainly not Mr. Arafat can articulate a reasonable concept of what a peace settlement would look like. Only the United States can do so.

I think Abdullah did that to a point but only the United States has the degree of credibility and influence, power in the final analysis to put on the table a comprehensive, fair peace solution based on the U.N. resolutions and one which provides for security for Israel to which is certainly entitled for dignity and independence for the Palestinians, which is there warrant as well.

ZAHN: Zbigniew Brzezinski, thank you again for joining us. We always appreciate your insight, even though you probably got members of the administration ticked off with what you had to say today.

BRZEZINSKI: Yes, I'm afraid that's probably true.

ZAHN: All right. Thank you for your time this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com