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American Morning

In Mideast, Talk of Peace Does Nothing to Quiet Israel Military Offensive; Refugee Camp in Jenin Comes Under Heavy Fire

Aired April 08, 2002 - 09:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Time to go to the Middle East right now where the talk of the peace has done nothing to quiet the Israel military offensive. And this morning a refugee camp in the West Bank town of Jenin came under heavy fire from Israeli helicopter gun ships.

Of course, the impact of the violence in the Middle East is being felt right here at home. On Friday, there was a rally in New York Time Square protesting Israeli's occupation of the Palestinian territory. And in New York yesterday pro-Israeli's demonstrators gathered for a rally of their own just outside of the United Nations.

And as Secretary of State Colin Powell heads to the Middle East, the Bush Administration is trying to find a path to peace. And joining us now Yehuda Lancry, Israeli's United Nations Ambassador and Nasser Al-Kidwa, the Palestinian Representative to the U.N.

Welcome back gentlemen, good to see both of you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning again.

ZAHN: Let's first start with the news of the day coming from Ariel Sharon. He said Israeli troops will get out "as expeditiously as possible". Now we all know it doesn't take Colin Powell to get to the region - in five days to get to the region. Is the United States essentially saying all right, we want you to withdraw now but as long as it's by the end of the week it's OK. Is that the message that's being sent, ambassador?

YEHUDA LANCRY, UNITED NATIONS AMBASSADOR, ISRAEL: Of course our policy is to conduct this operation in order to approach the terrorist network. But we are very attentive both to the U.N. Security Counsels resolution and to the Presidential statement including the mission of Secretary of State Colin Powell.

ZAHN: You say you're sensitive to that and yet the incursion continues?

LANCRY: Because we have stated with the score of terrorists in the Palestinian cities and territories but basically our policy is not to amplify (ph) the cities of these territories. We are respectful of the agreement. This agreement was violated (INAUDIBLE) that the personal (ph) authority didn't muster (ph) the terrorist activity so we're compelled in response to a series of suicide bombing attacks to combat this operation.

And they do believe that this week we will begin to withdrawal.

ZAHN: By the end of the week? By the end of the week, is that what you're saying?

LANCRY: I say this week.

ZAHN: Is that satisfactory?

NASSER AL-KIDWA, PALESTINIAN REPRESENTATIVE TO THE U.N.: Last Thursday - last Thursday, President Bush requested Israel to end its military operation and start to withdraw. On Saturday, he said without delay. And United States supported Security Counsel resolution 14-03 (ph). Requesting this withdrawal without delay.

Yesterday, many officials - many U.S. officials including (INAUDIBLE) and Colin Powell said without delay means now not tomorrow. So either the administration is lying and I don't think so, or the administration is being bullied, ignored by the Israeli's. And Israeli's, by the way, are in complete defiance of the whole world, not only the United States. So this is the reality and I think the U.S. and the rest of the world should deal with it as it is.

ZAHN: So what do you do about it? What are you suggesting should happen to Israel right now?

AL-KIDWA: Just be serious. The United States is the source of unlimited support, financially, militarily, politically; the United States provides our protection for the Israel in old places such Political Counsel for instance. Be serious and believe me, they will listen and they will listen very quickly.

ZAHN: Mr. Ambassador, you're essentially saying if Yasser Arafat had lived up to its - his end of the deal that the Israeli's wouldn't find themselves in this situation?

LANCRY: Absolutely. And that we qualify that the United States, including President Bush, do understand the right of Israeli to defend itself. The United Nations also (INAUDIBLE) the fact that this U.N. Security Counsel resolution stipulates a package deal for cepricol (ph) steps. We don't get it from the Palestinian side even though the slightest indication that there will be a ceasefire or declaration of the end of suicide bombings, that is a problem.

ZAHN: But you have people out there like Hussein should (ph) the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee that is saying now the United States can't even pretend to be an honest broker. He writes and we'll put this up on the screen now, much of the president's rhetoric suggested that he buys into the absurd Israeli line that its violent occupation to Palestinian people is somehow analogous to America's war against Al Qaeda. Such a fundamental error would make it impossible for the United States to play any constructive role in resolving the conflict between the Israeli's and the Palestinians.

Do you agree that that's the perception of the American role? LANCRY: That is one dimension perception of course, which stems from the - his own offload (ph). But as we do know, the United States played a great role in the Egyptian/Israeli history to - in the Taldrin (ph) in Israeli history and even in supporting all the interim phase of the Islam (ph) agreements between us and the Palestinians. I believe that my colleague and friend, Ambassador Kilow (ph), is quite convinced that the United States are in their position ever to play a great role between Israeli and the Palestinians.

ZAHN: Mr. Al-Kidwa, you said it is not your belief that these American officials have been lying. You suggested perhaps maybe they've been bullied by Israel. Are you saying then that Ariel Sharon is trying to completely undercut Secretary of State Powell's mission?

AL-KIDWA: That's the only explanation unfortunately. Because if the secretary arrives (INAUDIBLE) is this mission is done. Actually an important part of the value of the statement made by the president has already done. Let's hope that the rest of it will be kept.

But let me go back to this issue of attempts of role patterns between what's happening in Palestine and the U.S. war in Afghanistan. I think in an attempted role pattern is just obscene. The United States is not occupying power. It has never occupied Afghanistan for 35 years let alone for any period of time. The United States is not - did not suppress the whole operation Afghanistan, preventing them from the exercise of the right to (INAUDIBLE).

I mean any of attempt to compare between the two situations is just obscene and it - it - it does undermine the legitimacy of the war against terrorism led by the United States.

ZAHN: Let's move on to the part of the equation that has become very volatile this morning when you talk about the war on terror. The Bush Administration has made it abundantly clear that Iraq is one of those access of evil powers and you have the head of Iraq, Saddam Hussein coming out today saying he's going to stop shipping oil for a month in protest of the Israeli incursion. What are the ramifications of that? How serious is this?

LANCRY: He's talking the fuel but he's fueling the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. As he do now, he's involving every family of suicide bombers with $25,000. That is one way of really inflaming the situation between Israeli's and the Palestinians.

ZAHN: You see this as growing to a situation where other Arab nations will support an oil embargo? Is that your pair (ph)?

LANCRY: It could be the situation but I hope that we very strong will emerge to a renewed space of negotiations. Ceasefire, of course, withdrawal, of course, negotiations and a spirit and logic of this with the Palestinians.

ZAHN: Is it a non-starter, sir, this morning that Ariel Sharon said in a very broad speech that the Israeli military will withdraw "to security zones in order to prevent future terrorist attacks on Israeli". Some people are implying that that is Ariel Sharon negotiating himself in advance of Colin Powell even getting here.

AL-KIDWA: This is another man's statement about Mr. Sharon. In addition to a series of mad statements, which clearly indicates his real policies and his real positions against any serious attempt to reach real peace in the region. What we need to know is, again, to show seriousness on the part of the whole world so that Mr. Sharon is convinced and that those war crimes and stated terrorism stops. There's almost a massacre now taking place in Jenin. Helicopter gun ships are throwing missiles at one square kilometer packed with almost 15,000 people in a refugee camp.

ZAHN: That's the issue now that Ambassador Lancry's arguing that all the Israeli's are doing are trying to wipe the terrorists.

AL-KIDWA: Just look at the TV and watch, watch what the - what the Israel forces are doing, preventing even ICRC. This is a war crime, clear war crime, witnessed by the whole world, preventing ambulances, preventing people from being buried. I mean this is an all-out assault against the whole population.

LANCRY: I would not suggest that you base your proof and your reality off the images from the TV. The reality is more complex. We are fighting what the Palestinian call the Palestinian gunmen, Palestinian fighters, forest (ph) terrorists were responsible for - only for the month of March of 135 Israelis killed and hundreds of others injured or for their lives. So that is a problem. If that is a true way for the Palestinian side to stop suicide bombings, to end terror and declare ceasefire, we are responding in a very positive way.

ZAHN: We are going to have to end it there.

AL-KIDWA: We regret any loss of life but what's happening, creating even more suicide bombers.

ZAHN: OK. We'd love to have you come back at the end of the week if you're prediction is true and withdrawal starts then. Ambassador Lancry and Mr. Al-Kidwa, thank you, again. All right. Well, you know. Some Mondays we're better at pronouncing those names than others. I got it right last week. Good luck at the U.N. gentlemen. Thank you for your time this morning.

The conflict in the Middle East has only heightened concerns for American Muslims, especially those who are recent immigrants. Immigrants to American often feel the need or the desire to assimilate, take up their American customs and sometimes even Americanize their names. Well since September 11th, the desire to fit in and the desire to stay true to their culture has been on the minds of many Arab-Americans and Garrick Utley now has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARRICK UTLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a familiar scene. Palestinians watching the violence in the Middle East on Al-Jazeera, the Arab language news channel. You can feel and hear the anger.

UNIDENTIFIED: All of our community really is very, very mad and very angry about what is happening now.

UTLEY: But this commune is on Main Street, Patterson (ph), New Jersey, at least four of the September 11th terrorists lived in Patterson as they planned their attacks.

Who lives in this community?

UNIDENTIFIED: It's mostly Arab-Americans here.

UTLEY: Hama Alidodo (ph) was born in Jerusalem. He came to the United States more than 30 years ago and teaches chemistry at a local university.

HAMA ALIDODO: You have Palestinians. You have Jordanians, Syrian, Lebanese, some Turkish, few Iraqis.

UTLEY: And ass they gather at the Arab (INAUDIBLE) Cafe, they say they have never felt more stigmatized for who they are.

UNIDENTIFIED: Arabs and Muslims actually became somehow, you know, wherever they go, as if there is some kind of a dark mark upon everybody which looks at or resemble Arabs.

UNIDENTIFIED: The story of those who have come to this promise land called America seeking a new life is so often about the discrimination and stereotyping followed eventually by assimilation and acceptance. The process of becoming an American is about your identity to what extent do you cling to an old one or seek a new one.

UTLEY: Derek Hasan (ph) has faced that question. He lives and works across the Hudson River from Ground Zero. Born in Pakistan, he came to this country as a child. Now is he has changed his name to Terry Hasan (ph).

TERRY HASAN: I mean I'm still the same person just with the name Terry, I'm communicating that as a Muslim, I can also embrace America and still have my Hasan classic Muslim last night but also an American first name.

UTLEY: There is a long tradition of immigrants Americanizing their names to fit in better. Schmidt becomes Smith. Josepe (ph) turns into Joseph. Since September 11th, a small but growing number of Muslims have been changing their names.

UNIDENTIFIED: Everyone has a right to a personal choice. Now maybe that's me being too American or too western in the sense like of individualism. But I think it's a perm choice.

UTLEY: But at Arab (INAUDIBLE) Cafe, Terry Hasan's choice is seen as something approaching cultural treason.

UNIDENTIFIED: After September 11, I really think that is demeaning and it is not really very courageous. As a matter of fact, I can really call it cowardly.

UTLEY: Terry Hasan is not bothered by what other Muslims think of him. But even with a new name, he says his religion isolates him in American life.

HASAN: People don't know Muslims in their work life. So as a result, people have a stereotype of Muslims they get from world politics. And there's no personal experience for most people to counter that. So my fear is that Muslims are dehumanized, depersonalized.

UTLEY: He is not alone.

UNIDENTIFIED: This is a melting pot. A land of immigrants and you want to have our share in it and contribute our share as well.

UTLEY: That has always been the American dream. But for some now, that dream is a little more distant. Garrick Utley, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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